313 replies to this topic

[Mr Walker]

HavocWing, on 16 October 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

It all depends on how you define a god.

The word god is a linguistic construct attached to a physical or metaphysical "entity", Humans made up the word and generally establish the terms /parameters which attach to it.

So just as a dog is a dog; a god is a god. There is considerable "wriggle room" within the definition/parameters, just as there is within the word dog (they come in all shapes and sizes)

In general, in my terms; if it walks like a god, talks like a god, acts like a god and has the powers of a god, and especially if it takes an interest in you, then it can accurately and properly be called a god.

Human gods have taken a huge variety of forms from the  sky god of ghengis khan through the gods of ancient egypt, china, bablylonia and meso america, through the gods of the book, up to modern forms of god, like gaea in its  modern form.

There can be non physical and non real gods which are just thought/mental constructs, but in this case i was specificalyreferring to a physical, sapient entity existing with independent form, awareness and purpose.

Ps i dont get the point of the link provided. I assumed it would take me to your favoured definition of a god or gods. Narcissistic disorders have nothing to do with gods, real or imaginary.Iif it was a dig at how you perceive me, it went right over my head. I am the physical and spiritual/philosophical opposite to a narcissist, what ever that may be. I am one with the universe. no greater nor no less than all other  elements and intelligences within that universe. I have an important role to play as an integral part of the universe, but no more than anyone else is capable of playing.

Ps as well as having a personal interest in my own mental health, I did two years of psychology at university, in my third and fourth years there. I am an experienced (10 ) years student counsellor of adolescents and a teacher of physical and mental health as a professional educator  over a couple of decades.  While i thank you for your concern, I can assure you  that, while i have an exceptionally healthy self esteem and self awareness /confidence, I have none of the pathological traits of a narcissist.

Edited by Mr Walker, 16 October 2012 - 10:43 AM.

[Mr Walker]

Viviana98, on 16 October 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

I would just like for a believer to explain things with out using the words "believe" or "faith". How about some truth and facts?? I don't want to hear bible riddles or how it depends on the context in which to take it. I want some things actually explained in a logical and factual way. I don't get mad that people believe in what they do, I get irritated that no one who does believe will admit that they just believe and that they don't know for a fact and that they might JUST might be wrong in teaching young kids that they'll go to hell if they don't believe what they do. You don't have any facts and you never will because you don't get the gifts of god until you die and you don't believe in past lives. So maybe stop being so hard headed and stop teaching it as though its fact. I think that's what gets most people is that you DON'T KNOW but you act as though its fact.

I'll put it very simply but only speak for myself.

I know god exists, precisely as i know my dog exists and for the same reasons of evidence logic and common sense. God offers to me, through ongoing, coherent, contextual  physical evidences, just as much proof of his existence as my dog does. So if can know my dog exists, why cannot i know my god exists? If you want to go all existentialist and claim i cant know anything exists fair enough, but that is a non scientific and silly/non productive general world view If oyu want to argue that my evidences for my god dont convince you then i agree And add "why should they?" Why should you believe either in my dog or my god . One answer, logically, is that you should not.

You have no evidences for either's existence. But of course that has no bearing on the reality/actuality of existence of my dog or my god. What you believe while it has meaning, comfort and relevance for you, has no bearing/ influence  on their existence  or relevance to their reality and independent existence. My dog doesnt rely on or require your belief to exist  And he is totally unconcerned wha tyou think of him  My god doesnt rely on your belief for his existence. I cant speak for how your disbelief bothers him. Possibly as little as it does my dog.

Ps I have no evidence for heaven or hell after death. Hell is actually non bilbical. So is ascencion to heaven at death. The bible actually says that when we die we sleep. And are resurrected for judgement on the two judgement days. But i dont believe /disbelieve that either. I do know that god in your life on earth can make your life, here and now, heaven on earth. God can empower you and change you, so that you can live as a spiritual being, unafraid and without any of the negative concerns of many humans. No anger, hate, greed, lust, envy etc., just love, peace, joy, power, courage and strength.
Living with god here and now is physically possible. It transforms you totally and is indisputably real. The gifts of god in my experience, are not just physically real, but absolutely freely available and acessible to any and every human being, all the time they are alive on earth. You dont need religion, just faith, because god lives in you and all about you. You only have to recognise this in your heart and mind and open yourself to god.
In my experience, he will "enter into you" and become one with you, after which almost anything is humanly possible. God is already in us, but when we open ourselves to him it feels as if he is entering us.  Rather, to be more accurate, our consciousness is becoming fully aware of his presence .

[notoverrated]

haters will always hate, no matter what its about.

[HavocWing]

Mr Walker, on 16 October 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

The word god is a linguistic construct attached to a physical or metaphysical "entity", Humans made up the word and generally establish the terms /parameters which attach to it.

So just as a dog is a dog; a god is a god. There is considerable "wriggle room" within the definition/parameters, just as there is within the word dog (they come in all shapes and sizes)

In general, in my terms; if it walks like a god, talks like a god, acts like a god and has the powers of a god, and especially if it takes an interest in you, then it can accurately and properly be called a god.

Human gods have taken a huge variety of forms from the  sky god of ghengis khan through the gods of ancient egypt, china, bablylonia and meso america, through the gods of the book, up to modern forms of god, like gaea in its  modern form.

There can be non physical and non real gods which are just thought/mental constructs, but in this case i was specificalyreferring to a physical, sapient entity existing with independent form, awareness and purpose.

Ps i dont get the point of the link provided. I assumed it would take me to your favoured definition of a god or gods. Narcissistic disorders have nothing to do with gods, real or imaginary.Iif it was a dig at how you perceive me, it went right over my head. I am the physical and spiritual/philosophical opposite to a narcissist, what ever that may be. I am one with the universe. no greater nor no less than all other  elements and intelligences within that universe. I have an important role to play as an integral part of the universe, but no more than anyone else is capable of playing.

Ps as well as having a personal interest in my own mental health, I did two years of psychology at university, in my third and fourth years there. I am an experienced (10 ) years student counsellor of adolescents and a teacher of physical and mental health as a professional educator  over a couple of decades.  While i thank you for your concern, I can assure you  that, while i have an exceptionally healthy self esteem and self awareness /confidence, I have none of the pathological traits of a narcissist.

N.P.D. has everything to with being a god, it is their very personality.  That would be the self styled humans.

I never even mentioned anything about you having N.P.D., but if you fancy yourself a god..

I apply the same mnemonic they use for h.p.d. to narcissists as well.

http://en.wikipedia....sorder#Mnemonic

Edited by HavocWing, 16 October 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Viviana98]

Mr Walker, on 16 October 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

I'll put it very simply but only speak for myself.

I know god exists, precisely as i know my dog exists and for the same reasons of evidence logic and common sense. God offers to me, through ongoing, coherent, contextual  physical evidences, just as much proof of his existence as my dog does. So if can know my dog exists, why cannot i know my god exists? If you want to go all existentialist and claim i cant know anything exists fair enough, but that is a non scientific and silly/non productive general world view If oyu want to argue that my evidences for my god dont convince you then i agree And add "why should they?" Why should you believe either in my dog or my god . One answer, logically, is that you should not.

You have no evidences for either's existence. But of course that has no bearing on the reality/actuality of existence of my dog or my god. What you believe while it has meaning, comfort and relevance for you, has no bearing/ influence  on their existence  or relevance to their reality and independent existence. My dog doesnt rely on or require your belief to exist  And he is totally unconcerned wha tyou think of him  My god doesnt rely on your belief for his existence. I cant speak for how your disbelief bothers him. Possibly as little as it does my dog.

Ps I have no evidence for heaven or hell after death. Hell is actually non bilbical. So is ascencion to heaven at death. The bible actually says that when we die we sleep. And are resurrected for judgement on the two judgement days. But i dont believe /disbelieve that either. I do know that god in your life on earth can make your life, here and now, heaven on earth. God can empower you and change you, so that you can live as a spiritual being, unafraid and without any of the negative concerns of many humans. No anger, hate, greed, lust, envy etc., just love, peace, joy, power, courage and strength.
Living with god here and now is physically possible. It transforms you totally and is indisputably real. The gifts of god in my experience, are not just physically real, but absolutely freely available and acessible to any and every human being, all the time they are alive on earth. You dont need religion, just faith, because god lives in you and all about you. You only have to recognise this in your heart and mind and open yourself to god.
In my experience, he will "enter into you" and become one with you, after which almost anything is humanly possible. God is already in us, but when we open ourselves to him it feels as if he is entering us.  Rather, to be more accurate, our consciousness is becoming fully aware of his presence .

How do you KNOW?? Have you ever seen him, met him, maybe had coffee with him? Your dog you can touch, see and hear as can everyone else who visits your home...unless you kennel God I don't think its true for him. And I'm not saying there is or there isn't a GOD for a fact as I don't know. I chose not to have blind faith in one though.

[Finity]

Because people get stuck in their ways and refuse to accept that they are wrong.  Even when there is physical and un-deniable proof.  The Taliban are an example of this.

A lot of atheists are scientificly minded and work on facts, while the religious believe strongly that they should worship something that has absolutely no proof to back it up.

Edited by Finity, 16 October 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[ranrod]

Bling, on 02 October 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

There are alot of different topics on this forum and throughout society, in which people cast their opinion on something 'unexplained'. I've seen people imply that ghosts, UFO's astral projection and cryptids don't exist, and those who believe in them are wrong or deluded. So when an atheist says to a religious person that they are wrong or deluded, why are they vilified? Why then are they told they are going to hell, deluded, evil, enemies of the faith, so readily by some believers? It seems that some topics are ok to mock but religion is a no no. I think that's unfair. I hate seeing people have their beliefs of UFO's, cryptids and the paranormal cast aside by many and pigeonholed as ridiculous, but yet it happens - not just on this forum but throughout society.
So why is it that when atheists stick up for their beliefs and talk about them, do they often get attacked by believers? Is it ok to mock someone who believes in UFO's but not someone who believes in god? And if so, why?

I don't necessarily put all beliefs in one category.   For example, I don't accept the concept of any god(s) that I've come across, yet I believe there's life somewhere else in the universe.  I have no proof of that, and proof might never come, but I still believe it.  Nothing wrong with letting your sense of wonder and fantasy have some fun as long as it doesn't bother anyone in the process.  Very strict atheists disregard anything that can't be established to a certain degree of scientific certainty.  Sounds boring.  I play the fool for the sake of fun

[Mr Walker]

HavocWing, on 16 October 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

N.P.D. has everything to with being a god, it is their very personality.  That would be the self styled humans.

I never even mentioned anything about you having N.P.D., but if you fancy yourself a god..

I apply the same mnemonic they use for h.p.d. to narcissists as well.

http://en.wikipedia....sorder#Mnemonic

Such people only think they are gods. (and not all narcissists think like that, while many non narcissists consider them selves god(s) ) WE were talking about real gods Not people imagining they are a god. But thanks for your explanation for the link. I appreciate now that it was not meant as a dig at me.

  I am a god (partly adonis and partly pan, along with many other avatars,)   but no more or less than you are. Perhaps the only difference is that the realisation of being a part of god activates the abilities of god within.
Like an amnesiac who has forgotten many of the abilities and skills they knew, and when their memory is recovered, finds they can do many things which seem incredible before the recovery,  such as speaking several languages fluently.

[Mr Walker]

Viviana98, on 16 October 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

How do you KNOW?? Have you ever seen him, met him, maybe had coffee with him? Your dog you can touch, see and hear as can everyone else who visits your home...unless you kennel God I don't think its true for him. And I'm not saying there is or there isn't a GOD for a fact as I don't know. I chose not to have blind faith in one though.

Yes seen him. Yes met him.  Yes had coffee with him. Had long discourses with him, listened to him teach and mentor me through words images etc. Ridden through flames and smoke with him on my shoulder, shared his mind, thoughts, knowledge and power. Been saved from death, physically healed, empowered, strengthened and altered by his power; which is absolutely physical and can be seen, felt, heard,  described and measured. etc. I have travelled the world, and the universe,  attached to god's presence and consciousness.
I can see, touch, hear, god just as i do my dog; and god can touch me, speak to me, warn me, just as my dog touches me, barks at me, and warns me. ANd of course other people around me see  hear etc the same physical evidences of god. How else would i know i was not hallucinating.
I know there is a god, as a fact, although one can argue if "he" is GOD or not. God is only a name/definition after all. I am incapable of faith. I suspend belief /disbelief in all things until i can know, but i know god as well as i know my wife, and in some ways better, because god and i share a mind/consciousness, while my wife and i do not.
God is not masculine. God is not human, but god is an evolved sapient being, composed of  self organised energy and matter and so is quite similar in critical ways to us, albeit very different in structure/form and nature.

[fullywired]

Mr Walker, on 16 October 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

.
.
Ps as well as having a personal interest in my own mental health, I did two years of psychology at university, in my third and fourth years there. I am an experienced (10 ) years student counsellor of adolescents and a teacher of physical and mental health as a professional educator  over a couple of decades.  While i thank you for your concern, I can assure you  that, while i have an exceptionally healthy self esteem and self awareness /confidence, I have none of the pathological traits of a narcissist.

And as I said before ,sews all his own sequins on
   fullywired

[ranrod]

Mr Walker, on 18 October 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Yes seen him. Yes met him.  Yes had coffee with him. Had long discourses with him, listened to him teach and mentor me through words images etc. Ridden through flames and smoke with him on my shoulder, shared his mind, thoughts, knowledge and power. Been saved from death, physically healed, empowered, strengthened and altered by his power; which is absolutely physical and can be seen, felt, heard,  described and measured. etc. I have travelled the world, and the universe,  attached to god's presence and consciousness.
I can see, touch, hear, god just as i do my dog; and god can touch me, speak to me, warn me, just as my dog touches me, barks at me, and warns me. ANd of course other people around me see  hear etc the same physical evidences of god. How else would i know i was not hallucinating.
I know there is a god, as a fact, although one can argue if "he" is GOD or not. God is only a name/definition after all. I am incapable of faith. I suspend belief /disbelief in all things until i can know, but i know god as well as i know my wife, and in some ways better, because god and i share a mind/consciousness, while my wife and i do not.
God is not masculine. God is not human, but god is an evolved sapient being, composed of  self organised energy and matter and so is quite similar in critical ways to us, albeit very different in structure/form and nature.

wait...are you Jesus?
...but seriously, did you have a breakthrough that allowed you to experience these things?  Is it something you can share in words?

[scowl]

Ever Learning, on 02 October 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

theres a polite way to show that you disagree, never see any christians say that your going to hell on this forum. i could copy and post loads of hate against christians but theres not as much hate towards atheists. pls prove me wrong and post all the anti atheist comments you can find.

Christians tend to avoid anything atheistic on the Internet. We're going to hell so they tend to avoid us. If they argue with us, they're not very persuasive. Just a few weeks ago in the "How to avoid hell" thread here, a Christian was saying he was sure Christianity was the one true religion because it's the most popular one in the world right now. Is Coke the one true soft drink?

In real life atheists or "non-spiritual" people are often pariahs. Most people feel it is a requirement that all people accept something greater than humanity and have absolute faith in something that isn't provable. If you don't you're a shell of a human being, just a blob of flesh living for no purpose. The "spiritual" people will pity you because they've "seen the light" (or something similar) and you're blind (or something similar). They'll tell you about how Jesus was a totally awesome dude like he won the Superbowl last season and will give you confused looks when you show them Bible versions that aren't totally awesome.

The least you could do is believe in aliens or Bigfoot!

[scowl]

ranrod, on 18 October 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

wait...are you Jesus?
...but seriously, did you have a breakthrough that allowed you to experience these things?  Is it something you can share in words?

Also if you could take pictures of God (posing next to your dog, for example) that would be the proof that God exists that many people have been looking for their entire lives.

[Tesla II]

Bling, on 02 October 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Is it ok to mock someone who believes in UFO's but not someone who believes in god? And if so, why?

There is a chance of ET civilizations out there BIG ONE.... god ( like a force in heaven ), none what so ever...Why ? Because the so called " Holy Bible " was written by a man... a man who witnessed something like a magician or alchemist, one who could perform certain tricks, like nowdays the magicians are fascinating, but i don't understand how they work their tricks.. So i could say there are unknown forces on the work, maybe even godlike! See... the holy bible is nothing but a tale of some guy performing neat tricks for people who didn't understand them, so they made him god of some kind.

This phenomena is still here 2012 years later...and because of such long reign of holyness the religion is firmly in place ( it has began to loose support finnaly! )... Well it's a lie when i was 8 years old they took me to a religion class, it is a class that takes 8 years ( twice a week, 45minutes in session ) and at the end there is a ceremony called " birma" and then you are done with this class for good, anyways they told me there that mankind "started" from Adam and Eva... 4 real..then when i went to school they told we evolved from monkies so ...

I am atheist because i don't accept this "faith"...based on sooooo many lies ... and then you see this religious zealots who fight for their religion without thinking what it really is... Burning talking bushes....Faces in the sky...ressurection....making wine from water... making a water split itself...

So what is more believable... outwordly civilization or "god" ...

[Seeker79]

markdohle, on 07 October 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

If what you say is true, then you are in communication with just another life form, though more powerful and intelligent, however not God by a long stretch.  You are saying creation preceded God, so God was created by creation????  Backwards I believe.

Im going to jump in on this one. A god that has evolved, but simply evolves along with eternity is an evolved eternal god. For me like MW god must be an evolved entity, but I do not have to have a beginning. We are dealing with the constraints of our mind and experience at this point, but it would seem to me that in an eternal existance, there are going to be many emergent systems evolving then integrating. God could simply be that final level of integration. But of course this is now supreme conciousness. Being conciousness god can direct its own evolution, be a personal being to the rest of us.... Etc etc. my mind cannot hold the concept that there was a nothing. God must be an eternally evolved entity. If we stretch our minds eternally into the future the evolution by sheer probability of god seems a certainty, by that token stretching eternally into the past, that should have happened many many many... Well an eternal amount of times.

An eternal entangled hierarchy. And eternal uni/multi/mega verse producing an eternal conciousness, and that conciousness adding to the uni/multi/mega verse. On and on and on. People understandably don't like infinities, but there is no reason to apply our seamingly finite existstance to everything else.