USA Officially attacking Pakistani citizens

[acidhead]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washingt...amp;oref=slogin

September 11, 2008

The U.S. is officially attacking Pakistani citizen within Pakistan's borders by military means:

President Bush secretly approved orders in July that for the first time allow American Special Operations forces to carry out ground assaults inside Pakistan without the prior approval of the Pakistani government, according to senior American officials.

This is an open declaration of war against Pakistan. http://www.moonofalabama.org/2008/09/at-all-cost.html

The commander of Pakistan's armed forces understood that and promises to fight back:

Pakistan’s top army officer said Wednesday that his forces would not tolerate American incursions like the one that took place last week and that the army would defend the country’s sovereignty “at all costs.”

"The sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country will be defended at all cost and no external force is allowed to conduct operations inside Pakistan," [Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani] said.

That grave sentence is the last one in the AP report.

The international media seem to be quiet about the issue.

There should be outrage. Attacks like the ground operation last week have zero military relevance for the outcome in Afghanistan. Kill one 'senior militant' and ten others will step up to take his job. But such operations endanger all 'western' troops and civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

[Mr Honeybadger]

Oh that's wonderful. We give Pakistan billions of dollars in aid. Now our military crosses into their country only to be shot at by Pakistan's military.

[GreyWeather]

Oh that's wonderful. We give Pakistan billions of dollars in aid. Now our military crosses into their country only to be shot at by Pakistan's military.

With weapons and ammunition bought with that aid .

[danielost]

With weapons and ammunition bought with that aid .

From us.

But this is just another attack on the usa by the op.

[BlindMessiah]

From us.

But this is just another attack on the usa by the op.

No... it's an attack on our incompetent and corrupt government.

Edited September 12, 2008 by BlindMessiah

[acidhead]

From us.

But this is just another attack on the usa by the op.

? ... read the op again Daniel.. NY TIMES

[Moon Monkey]

With weapons and ammunition bought with that aid .

Who'd have thought that plan could ever backfire ?

[danielost]

No... it's an attack on our incompetent and corrupt government.

I agree that the government is corrupt. The whole government not just one party or one branch.

But if you read the article it states that we will notify Pakistan when we go in. So they will know where and when we are there.

[acidhead]

.. the criminals who have hijacked the American government are truley desperate at the moment...

..something BIG is coming...

[Mr Honeybadger]

Heck. Alot of countries would shoot at us for free.

[danielost]

.. the criminals who have hijacked the American government are truley desperate at the moment...

..something BIG is coming...

This government wass hijacked at least 30 years ago. When they forced Nixon out of office for stopping the vietnam war.

[questionmark]

Who'd have thought that plan could ever backfire ?

...especially 'cause it was designed by the infallible Bush government....

[stevewinn]

Pakistan is having its own internal problems, the tribal area is out of control, it could even be considered a break away province from Pakistan, lets face it, Pakistan has no influence in the area, their also struggling to provide the security to keep the road open, (NATO's supply line) add to that they're also struggling with their own terrorism, with the Taliban launching attacks from the tribal area into Pakistan,

on the quiet the Pakistani government will be pleased the US is launching cross border attacks, but cant be seen publicly supporting such action. and most of these cross border incursions wont be in the form of boots on the ground but more likely carried out by the predator UAV's.

am just surprised that people are surprised the US and possibly others are carrying out raiding parties,

Edited September 12, 2008 by stevewinn

[Guardsman Bass]

Pakistan is having its own internal problems, the tribal area is out of control, it could even be considered a break away province from Pakistan, lets face it, Pakistan has no influence in the area, their also struggling to provide the security to keep the road open, (NATO's supply line) add to that they're also struggling with their own terrorism, with the Taliban launching attacks from the tribal area into Pakistan,

Indeed. How is Pakistan even planning to retaliate against any incursions which show up in their territory, considering they have next to no control over the Federally Administered Tribal Areas? They could use the ISI to train the Taliban, but the Taliban has been nearly as much a problem for them as it has been for us. They could strike into Afghanistan proper, but then we'd have a good excuse to tell them to **** off in any protest to our future incursions, as well as an easier time blackmailing them with the aid money we give them (and which their government is dependent on for fiscal solvency).

Frankly, considering that the sons of b****es have been playing a double game for decades now, fostering the Taliban and shielding them in order to have "strategic depth" with a friendly regime in Afghanistan in case India invades them, I'm sorely tempted to play hardball with them. We ought to go further and actually send deeper missions into the FATA against the Taliban clowns - then when Pakistan b****es, we just turn around and tell them that we are on very good military terms with India, and since Pakistan is only good to us so long as they help us stabilize Afghanistan, well, how would you like it if we offered the Indians a military alliance? They're terrified of India; they'd hate you forever for even suggesting it, but they'd get the message.

Of course, that would look very bad in the press. It'd also be yet another turd dropped right on the concept of territorial integrity, and you can bet Russia would be right there, saying "See! The Americans completely ignored the territorial integrity of an ally to eliminate a major security threat - how can you condemn us for doing as such in Georgia!"

on the quiet the Pakistani government will be pleased the US is launching cross border attacks, but cant be seen publicly supporting such action. and most of these cross border incursions wont be in the form of boots on the ground but more likely carried out by the predator UAV's.

I doubt they are that pleased about it on the private front. These guys have been feeding and playing off the Taliban for years, remember? Plus, of course, they are under immense fire for fighting the "American war".

am just surprised that people are surprised the US and possibly others are carrying out raiding parties,

If I recall correctly, we actually do have some authority to intervene into Pakistan proper that has been agreed upon by the Pakistani government. We've been using Predator aircraft against them for a while, and US forces have the right to go up to six miles into Pakistan if they are in "hot pursuit" of an enemy.

[Mainpoint]

This is ridiculous

US is already busting its balls, bleeding its reserves

More wars and US economy is going to collapse.

Maybe the gungho brits here can do the extra fightin for the US

[Mainpoint]

Oh that's wonderful. We give Pakistan billions of dollars in aid. Now our military crosses into their country only to be shot at by Pakistan's military.

I recently read that the US has just paid close to just 300 mil.

This is peanuts compared to the damage that country has recieved from Taliban and worsening economy.

I have read that US has used mostly muscle flexing and bullying to make Pakistan do its bidding.

Maybe instead of thuggery US should use decency and actually pay them for their services.

Otherwise other nations like russia will say well if the US can be a bully why cant we be?

[ships-cat]

Do I understand this correctly ?

[1]There is an area in - geographical - Pakistan, that is not under Pakistani government control.

[2]People in that area are part of a group that has attacked America... and that advocates continual attack against America, and american citizens abroad.

[3] American special forces have been infiltrated into that area, and may even have killed people. (and continue to do so ? )

So, arising from point (1), there is no territorial insult to Pakistan.

Arising from [2] - [3], Cat can only say ... HOORAAH.

Sheesh.

Meow Purr.

[Mainpoint]

Do I understand this correctly ?

[1]There is an area in - geographical - Pakistan, that is not under Pakistani government control.

[2]People in that area are part of a group that has attacked America... and that advocates continual attack against America, and american citizens abroad.

[3] American special forces have been infiltrated into that area, and may even have killed people. (and continue to do so ? )

So, arising from point (1), there is no territorial insult to Pakistan.

Arising from [2] - [3], Cat can only say ... HOORAAH.

Sheesh.

Meow Purr.

Do I understand correctly?

[1] There are cats not under control of humans.

[2] These cats have attacked humans in Africa and abroad.

[3] Humans have infiltrated cats and have killed them.

So again arising from point [1]

oh yeah

Skinned cats

MEEEEeeeer

[Guardsman Bass]

Do I understand this correctly ?

[1]There is an area in - geographical - Pakistan, that is not under Pakistani government control.

[2]People in that area are part of a group that has attacked America... and that advocates continual attack against America, and american citizens abroad.

[3] American special forces have been infiltrated into that area, and may even have killed people. (and continue to do so ? )

So, arising from point (1), there is no territorial insult to Pakistan.

Arising from [2] - [3], Cat can only say ... HOORAAH.

Sheesh.

Meow Purr.

It's the principle of the whole thing. It's Pakistani national territory (legally, that is; even the British Empire never managed to really control the FATA, and Pakistan never really has), and therefore their territorial sovereignty should be respected. Never mind that they haven't controlled the FATA in years, the Pastun Tribesmen that largely make up its population don't really recognize the government in Islamabad and routinely cross back and forth across the Afghani-Pakistani border, and so forth. Hence why I think we should play hardball with them.

[ships-cat]

Indeed Guardsman' ...

It is NOT Pakistani national territory, because "Pakistan" itself is an illegal imperialistic creation of the old Muslim Empire.

It was bolted together a bit like Yugoslavia was..

Pakistan is bits and bobs of India, ripped away from the original country under the demands of the Islamic invaders of India.

It is unstable: Bangladesh revolted and seperated fairly rapidly; Kashmir is still trying to do so. Various other regions of "Pakistan" are actually controlled by tribal loyalties, rather than federal ones.

So if the US has sent in ground troops... well... precisely WHO'S territory are they invading ?

If the Indian ambassador complains, then he/she might have just cause.

But the Pakistani ambassador ? Pfft....

Meow Purr

[Mainpoint]

US has already played hardball and it hasnt worked

nobody needs pushing around

I think people in pakistan will back the US 100%

They only need to see the good side of US

so far they havent

[ships-cat]

US has already played hardball and it hasnt worked

nobody needs pushing around

I think people in pakistan will back the US 100%

They only need to see the good side of US

so far they havent

Oh god protect us.

Lets take this one gentle step at a time....

Main'... are you aware of the predominant religion in Pakistan (indeed, the entire reason why the country was formed).

Meow Purr

[Mainpoint]

Oh god protect us.

Lets take this one gentle step at a time....

Main'... are you aware of the predominant religion in Pakistan (indeed, the entire reason why the country was formed).

Meow Purr

I dont need to know so what if it is voodo, santeria, monkey worship it does not matter

What matters is your dealing with someone. How willing you are at keeping your word and what impression you are willing to make.

[Moon Monkey]

I think people in pakistan will back the US 100%

They only need to see the good side of US

so far they havent

Thats so sweet. I mean naive. So far all they have seen is the 'west giving them money' side of things.

[danielost]

The taliban have decided that the Canadians are the wimps at the party. The Canadians are the ones that they are targeting trying to influence their election. We are having an election as well but I think we scare them to much for them to try that with us.