13 replies to this topic

[questionmark]

Spiegel said:

European leaders have long insisted they will do everything to save the euro. Now, a plan is forming that would dramatically change the architecture of the European Union. Brussels would be granted a significant say in national budgets and debt would be communalized. But the hurdles such a plan might face are high.

Politics is a strange business, and one of its premier oddities is that monumental changes are rarely heralded by great speeches. Addresses indicating a shifting course tend not to be of the visionary variety. And the public attention paid to such utterances often has no relation to their far-reaching consequences.

Read more

[and then]

It will be interesting to see if the final version of their plan, due in the fall, will find a Europe hungry enough and scared enough to give up a substantial amount of national sovereignty.
If the economic discontent worsens over the summer then Spain, France and Italy may be ripe for a new direction.  We certainly are living in interesting times.

[ealdwita]

and then, on 12 June 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

It will be interesting to see if the final version of their plan, due in the fall, will find a Europe hungry enough and scared enough to give up a substantial amount of national sovereignty.
If the economic discontent worsens over the summer then Spain, France and Italy may be ripe for a new direction.  We certainly are living in interesting times.

I think perhaps rather than relinquish sovereignty, member states in a  'hungry' Europe may fight each other, as they've done before!

[itsnotoutthere]

And exactly who are we all giving our sovereignty up too?
I think the master plan is swinging into action.

"The plan envisions nation states giving up significant elements of their sovereignty to European institutions. It would mean that the European Parliament would have to fight for relevancy with a new body that would be granted important oversight functions. The result would be a two-speed Europe, the core of which would be represented by the currency union."

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 12 June 2012 - 01:00 PM.

[questionmark]

itsnotoutthere, on 12 June 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

And exactly who are we all giving our sovereignty up too?
I think the master plan is swinging into action.

"The plan envisions nation states giving up significant elements of their sovereignty to European institutions. It would mean that the European Parliament would have to fight for relevancy with a new body that would be granted important oversight functions. The result would be a two-speed Europe, the core of which would be represented by the currency union."

My bet would be that Britain will be in the slower speed giving up nothing. And if you ask me, sovereignty should pass to the European Parliament, not the commission unless the commission is formed by members of the parliament.

[stevewinn]

i think its an excellent plan the EU is truly on a course to self destruction, which countries are foolish enough to give up sovereignty over national budgets to the EU? at some point in the future this will lead europe into civil unrest. and horrors will be witnessed. but everyone else will be to blame but the creators and supporters of foolish ideals.

[Paracelse]

you mean this type of Brussels: clicky here

[questionmark]

Paracelse, on 12 June 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

you mean this type of Brussels: clicky here

The laws created by the overpaid non-elect blokes must be approved by those who were elected and are also bored because they are against it. If they don't like that, instead of wasting their votes on the likes of LePen and John Tyndall they should elect somebody who will cast their vote in parliament in their interest.

[itsnotoutthere]

questionmark, on 12 June 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

My bet would be that Britain will be in the slower speed giving up nothing. And if you ask me, sovereignty should pass to the European Parliament, not the commission unless the commission is formed by members of the parliament.

Well we can only hope.
'slower speed'!  &  what exactly is it we're speeding towards?

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 12 June 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Render]

ealdwita, on 12 June 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

I think perhaps rather than relinquish sovereignty, member states in a  'hungry' Europe may fight each other, as they've done before!

oh sure, like they have the money to go to war

my god, this forum is trully full of ppl with a wild imagination and a preference for doom

[ealdwita]

Render, on 12 June 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

oh sure, like they have the money to go to war

my god, this forum is trully full of ppl with a wild imagination and a preference for doom

By Golly we are honoured - Neville Chamberlain belongs to UM!

[and then]

Render, on 12 June 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

oh sure, like they have the money to go to war

my god, this forum is trully full of ppl with a wild imagination and a preference for doom

I think of it more as a tip of the hat to realism in the current state of the planet. But even I don't think the world is ending    Global warming, economic crises, food cost soaring, middle east wars that are simmering just below the surface - any of it could cause a meltdown that took years to fix.  But I think in the EU erryting  gonna be airee mon.  They have too much invested on too many levels to let it all fall apart.  They will find or force compromise and my guess is that the European Parliament will be a truly meaningful and powerful elected body.  Maybe something akin to the US House of Representatives?  Germany would get say, 25 votes while Denmark get 8 and Greece 2 and the representation would be based on a formula of population as well as economic output.  The more productive a country is the greater voice at the table...JMO

[ThePhantomFlanFlinger]

Jees...you get depressed enough thinking about todays Europe so I'll damned if i'm thinking of tomorrows..

Edited by BrianPotter, 13 June 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[skookum]

Whatever happens I am sure there will be one country less.