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Why People Believe In Conspiracy Theories


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#61    Diamond Sheet

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 07:13 AM

View Postbrantcoyle, on 30 May 2010 - 12:33 PM, said:

There is a massive conspiracy and cover-up that no one ever talks about every four years. It's called the presidential election. This is where the competing secret societies and foreign governments anonymously donate massive quantities of money in order to buy the results. If it ever came out who donated what and what they got in return for it the whole system would start to unravel. The idea that a lot of money is coming from the small donaters has been proven false time and time again. It's all coming secretly from these big groups who then feel free to dictate to the elected officials how its going to be. The idea that the individual has representation is a myth.

Well put


#62    Fernand0

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 07:30 AM

I for one don't see the New World Order as a conspiracy. It is an inevitability that there will be a one world government in about 100 years when we are a Type 1 civilization. Albeit any such attempt as a Type 0 civilization would result in a world filled with Orwellian horrors and a continuation of the current dystopia the Christian right wants to maintain indefinitely. That is why the NWO conspiracy theorists are Christian right wing nutjobs for the most part, with a few liberals agreeing with them here and there; they want to continue doing things the way Type 0 civilization cavemen do them indefinitely politically and religiously. Chances are that neither their Type 0 civilization caveman religions, traditions or politics will be practiced in about 100 years when we are a Type 1 civilization. The closest thing to religion we will practice is science. There is nothing they can do to stop the transition from Type 0 to Type 1 aside from destroying the planet or killing everyone that lives on it; which is why the Christian right has an Armageddon fetish. Before there is no more Christianity, they want their end to be everyone else's.

edit

There are also other people from other religions that do not want a Type 1 civilization one world government. Muslims and Jews included, they also have traditions that are in their death throes and are witnessing the beginning of their end. Type 1 civilization people will not practice the traditions of Type 0 civilization prehistoric Bronze Age cavemen. Christians are just the majority and have the most power in their numbers, unless they can manage to kill everyone or destroy the planet they won't be here in 100 years. For the same reason there are no more Neanderthals practicing their traditions now.

View PostFernand0, on 13 June 2010 - 01:22 AM, said:

The damage done by the current Type 0 civilization cavemen in the dystopian Piscean Age will be undone in about 100 years when we are a Type 1 civilization.

http://en.wikipedia....Kardashev_scale

That's if we make it, we may destroy our planet before we make the transition. If our planet is still here and there are scientists left alive in about 100 years, all the damage done will be undone. All the problems we face now will not last forever.



The person speaking in that video is Dr. Michio Kaku, co-founder of unified string field theory and theoretical physicist.
A one world government is an inevitability not a conspiracy. No one is conspiring to belong to a Type 1 civilization, it is what will happen if we still exist in about 100 years. Of course, those that oppose that transition will persecute the people who are evolving as a civilization as if it is a conspiracy.

Edited by Fernand0, 13 June 2010 - 08:03 AM.


#63    Furnacewhelp

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 10:21 AM

View PostFernand0, on 13 June 2010 - 07:30 AM, said:

I for one don't see the New World Order as a conspiracy. It is an inevitability that there will be a one world government in about 100 years when we are a Type 1 civilization. Albeit any such attempt as a Type 0 civilization would result in a world filled with Orwellian horrors and a continuation of the current dystopia the Christian right wants to maintain indefinitely.

You mean like the attempt that Obama is making at a one world government? If Obama is part of the "Christian right" I will give birth to your child sir.

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That is why the NWO conspiracy theorists are Christian right wing nutjobs for the most part, with a few liberals agreeing with them here and there; they want to continue doing things the way Type 0 civilization cavemen do them indefinitely politically and religiously. Chances are that neither their Type 0 civilization caveman religions, traditions or politics will be practiced in about 100 years when we are a Type 1 civilization. The closest thing to religion we will practice is science. There is nothing they can do to stop the transition from Type 0 to Type 1 aside from destroying the planet or killing everyone that lives on it; which is why the Christian right has an Armageddon fetish. Before there is no more Christianity, they want their end to be everyone else's.

You're a Democrat aren't you? How are you so sure that the way Republicans and Christians do things will be gone in the future? How do you know that the Democrats and scientists won't fail? Technology is progressing faster and faster. It's getting to the point new technology is practically out of date the moment it is put into use. How do you know that we won't hit a barrier, think of it as the speed of technology, that is impossible to surpass that causes us to focus more on spirituality than technology?

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There are also other people from other religions that do not want a Type 1 civilization one world government. Muslims and Jews included, they also have traditions that are in their death throes and are witnessing the beginning of their end. Type 1 civilization people will not practice the traditions of Type 0 civilization prehistoric Bronze Age cavemen. Christians are just the majority and have the most power in their numbers, unless they can manage to kill everyone or destroy the planet they won't be here in 100 years. For the same reason there are no more Neanderthals practicing their traditions now.

So is there going to be a drastic climate change that kills off only religious people? Or will religious people interbreed with atheists until there are no more religious people in the world? Or maybe the atheists will rise up and commit mass genocide of religious people. Or will those who make our scientific advances simply hoard them for only those who they deem "qualified" to survive?
We don't know why Neanderthals went extinct, but we do know that it wasn't because they wouldn't let go of their "primitive" belief systems.

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A one world government is an inevitability not a conspiracy. No one is conspiring to belong to a Type 1 civilization, it is what will happen if we still exist in about 100 years. Of course, those that oppose that transition will persecute the people who are evolving as a civilization as if it is a conspiracy.

Again, how do you know that the opposite isn't true. That those who chose to "evolve" won't persecute those who don't want to move on.


#64    Fernand0

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 10:49 AM

View PostFurnacewhelp, on 13 June 2010 - 10:21 AM, said:

You're a Democrat aren't you?
I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I'm a moderate Libertarian according to a political compass test I took.

View PostFernand0, on 03 June 2010 - 06:57 PM, said:

Why must everyone be labeled as right or left politically? I'm neither and see most people as extremists on both sides.


I took the Political Compass test, I am somewhere in the middle.

Posted Image

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test
FYI, I have referred to Obama as a "human dreg that feeds by felching from the bottom of the food chain", does that seem to be a liberal bias to you?

Your arguments are 98% assumption, don't put words in my mouth.

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So is there going to be a drastic climate change that kills off only religious people? Or will religious people interbreed with atheists until there are no more religious people in the world? Or maybe the atheists will rise up and commit mass genocide of religious people. Or will those who make our scientific advances simply hoard them for only those who they deem "qualified" to survive?
We don't know why Neanderthals went extinct, but we do know that it wasn't because they wouldn't let go of their "primitive" belief systems.
Anything can occur within the next 100 years, that we will be a Type 1 civilization if the planet and the people living in it are still here is inevitable. Do you honestly think that the people of that age will look back on religion and the problems it has caused favorably when they have dominion of the planet which was considered to be under the dominion of an imaginary deity? Our current politics are also not going to be looked back on favorably because the currently existing ones are dystopian.

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Again, how do you know that the opposite isn't true. That those who chose to "evolve" won't persecute those who don't want to move on.
Because the ones with all the power belong to the religious majority. That's like saying the Inquisitioned are the Inquisitors. I have nothing further to discuss with you.

Edited by Fernand0, 13 June 2010 - 11:13 AM.


#65    KennyB

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 05:51 PM

View Postbrantcoyle, on 30 May 2010 - 12:33 PM, said:

There is a massive conspiracy and cover-up that no one ever talks about every four years. It's called the presidential election. This is where the competing secret societies and foreign governments anonymously donate massive quantities of money in order to buy the results. If it ever came out who donated what and what they got in return for it the whole system would start to unravel. The idea that a lot of money is coming from the small donaters has been proven false time and time again. It's all coming secretly from these big groups who then feel free to dictate to the elected officials how its going to be. The idea that the individual has representation is a myth.

I agree to nearly all the replys to this thread. I cannot see how anybody that has been around the last 20 years and saw what the Republican party has done to the country could deny that there was a monstrous conspiracy, plus treason, vote fixing, sending American jobs overseas, phony wars, enoromus thefts. Of course, when they say 'prove it', they really mean 'beyond ANY doubt, knowing that's impossible. Sometimes, it does involve large numbers of people, somtimes, only a few individuals. If you don't believe in conspiracies, tell me how the Patriot Act got passed,or the 9-11 debacle was pulled off, for another. It makes little difference even if you're a Democrat. You signed off on everything that was done. All of you knew what was happening and never stood up and told the people. You are right about one thing, tho. I believe in Sitchin. Nothing I've read about him can remotely compare with 9-11.  KennyB


#66    Furnacewhelp

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 12:23 AM

View PostFernand0, on 13 June 2010 - 10:49 AM, said:

I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I'm a moderate Libertarian according to a political compass test I took. FYI, I have referred to Obama as a "human dreg that feeds by felching from the bottom of the food chain", does that seem to be a liberal bias to you?

That graph shows that you lean more to the left than the right though. Even though you may not agree with Obama you are more likely to agree with democrats than republicans.

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Your arguments are 98% assumption, don't put words in my mouth.

I wasn't putting any words in your mouth, I was simply asking you questions. You seem to have a deep contempt for the "Christian right" and are blaming all of these possible problems on them.

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Anything can occur within the next 100 years, that we will be a Type 1 civilization if the planet and the people living in it are still here is inevitable. Do you honestly think that the people of that age will look back on religion and the problems it has caused favorably when they have dominion of the planet which was considered to be under the dominion of an imaginary deity? Our current politics are also not going to be looked back on favorably because the currently existing ones are dystopian.

Because the ones with all the power belong to the religious majority. That's like saying the Inquisitioned are the Inquisitors. I have nothing further to discuss with you.

How is it inevitable that we will become a type 1 civilization? Quoting the second sentence of your own link:

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"The scale is only theoretical and in terms of an actual civilization"
http://en.wikipedia....Kardashev_scale

As you said, "Anything can occur within the next 100 years" why is it that once those hundred years are up we have to become a type 1 civilization? Why is it that the randomness of the next 100 years can't effect our "ascension" to type 1 without resulting in the destruction of the planet or its people?

And if "all of the power belongs to the religious majority" why would those in power suddenly drop their religious tendencies to support your vision of the future?


#67    TheLoneWhiteWolf

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:00 AM

Interesting topic.. I'm glad I caught the first page of this topic or else I would think it was about politics. I think it interesting that a topic entitled "Why People Believe In Conspiracy Theories" exists while I haven't seen one called "Why People Believe The Official Story". Each is worthy of analysis in my opinion, because both say a lot about the person it refers to. So, I'm going to give my analysis of why people believe the official story and why people believe conspiracy theories, then I'm going to pick apart a few points made in the OP.

Why people believe in the official story?

With every person it is different because we all live different lives, have different aspirations and had different upbringings. However, if those who believe in the official story have the ability to see in objectivity why it is they do what they do, they may find that one or more of the following is true of themselves.

- Feels unaffected by the news story to begin with, therefore makes no efforts to be sure it is truthful or accurate.
- Sees no reason why the government and media would lie to us for alternative purposes even though they have on several occasions*)* = At the bottom I will list several lies.
- Thinks that logically the simplest explanation is the one that is more likely true(Occam's Razor according to interpretations), even though the official story is often more complicated than the alternative versions.
- Thinks of conspiracy theorists or those who make 'wild' accusations as nutty or sensationalists who are either paranoid or trying to make a buck off of their claims through books and newsletters and so forth.
- Thinks "if this was true and the government wanted to shut them up, why haven't they killed them", despite the obvious flaw in that logic.** = I will explain the flaw at the bottom of the post.
- Sheep mentality. They take the official story as truth because they assume/believe that those 'taking care of them' are out for their safety and betterment and would not conspire against their own people. *** = Another flaw in logic I will explain at the bottom of the page.

Why do people believe in conspiracy theories?

Again, like with the last group, things vary as do people and therefore each reason will not apply to each person, but I ask conspiracy theorists to take an objective look at themselves. All of us have a reason for doing what we do, so there is no harm in identifying that reason, in fact it helps you understand how you ended up at the conclusions you have. Have a motive does not make you wrong, it makes you human.

- Under-belief in coincidence. They believe that if two dots connect, it isn't a matter of mistake or coincidence, but of actual connection, which then leads to believing that something or someone is orchestrating it.
- Generalizing. They believe that if something told by the source was incorrect or lied about, then all other things from that source must also be lies and/or the source cannot be trusted.
- Over-rebellion against authority. They not only act with distension(which I encourage, but they act with assumption. Dissension is the act of questioning authority and criticizing authority, which is fine. However, conspiracy theorists sometimes assume that becauseit's coming from authority, it must be un-true, a lie or a conspiracy. **** = Flaw in logic I will explain.
-  Finding of a flaw in the official story. They often believe that if something isn't right about the official story and the story is coming from a 'fishy' source, then it is likely a lie, conspiracy or what-have-you. ***** = Flaw in logic I will explain.

Now of course, there are more reasons, there are always more reasons because there are always different people and with them are different sorts of motives. Obviously, a big thing for both sides is how they were brought up, what their belief system is and how they view life, those affect this aspect of them.

Criticizing the official post...


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There is a strong association between income and belief levels: the better-off are less likely to believe in conspiracy theories. (Perhaps this can be chalked up to education or at least the fact that they don't feel as victimized by society and angry about their situation in life.)

Instability makes most of us uncomfortable; people prefer to imagine living in a predictable, safe world. Some conspiracy theories offer accounts that feel “safe” or “predictable.”

Conspiracy theories often mutate over time in light of new or contradicting evidence.

1. JFK conspiracy theory, as you said in 1990 "nine in ten" believed it was true. So, are we to assume that 9 in 10 people are poor or uneducated? The 9/11 truther movement is only growing as time goes on, surely they can't all be poor, working class, uneducated rednecks then?

2. The belief in conspiracy theories in no way makes the world feel more safe, I'm not sure how that was concluded. In some peoples worlds Obama is the anti-christ trying to form a one world government that will wipe out 90% of the population and was responsible for 9/11 and orchestrates wars in order to cause hidden global change. Would you like to tell me exactly how that makes things safer than someone who believes that the U.S.A is an independent country trying to resolve foreign affairs and Obama is just a Democratic President elected by us who will work to preserve life? I can possibly understand "predictable" when applying conspiracy theories, but safe? I don't think so.

3. Some of them do, that is correct, but many of them do not. The conspiracy theories which aren't addressed tend to remain the same while those who are addressed are easily destroyed, therefore mutations occur. It's simply that some conspiracy theories are stronger than others, people are willing to step up to the plate and hit a home run against the opponent when the pitcher isn't on his game, if a conspiracy theory is utterly ridiculous, it is easily thwarted while the tougher ones aren't. The reason conspiracy theories keep on going isn't because everyone is a nut or is high, but because there are some legitimately hard questions for the skeptics to explain and therefore people assume that other conspiracies are just as strong.



* --- Sources: http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/, http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/Gulf-of-Tonkin.htm

1. "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.

"FACT: This whopper was based on a document that the White House already knew to be a forgery thanks to the CIA. Sold to Italian intelligence by some hustler, the document carried the signature of an official who had been out of office for 10 years and referenced a constitution that was no longer in effect. The ex-ambassador who the CIA sent to check out the story is pissed: "They knew the Niger story was a flat-out lie," he told the New Republic, anonymously. "They [the White House] were unpersuasive about aluminum tubes and added this to make their case more strongly." - Alternet.org

2. "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." -- Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.

"FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks -- if they existed -- were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder." - Alternet.org

3. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident. The government told us that our "boys" were floating in the water, which inevitably lead to the Vietnam war. But, this incident never occurred, so admits the government now after thousands are dead. - http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/Gulf-of-Tonkin.htm

Of course there are many more lies, but that's just a sampling. The sources I provided do not reflect me as I have heard this information from many sources, but those are the ones I will give to you so you may go off and do the research yourselves.


** --- The conspiracy theorists believe in a shadow government, Illuminati, or various secret societies which are at the forefront above the governments we see day to day. They believe that these groups are attempting to control the world, but the people would be rebellious and very rowdy if they knew and had proof of this. Therefore, they believe that the shadow elite work to get rid of their opposition which threatens their status, but through careful means you see. If you wanted to control the world and riding on that was your secrecy and slow progression, you would not want to attract attention and give credit to the opponent by killing them off, rather you would work to discredit them by attacking their sanity or their personal life. Therefore, the belief that such a government if it existed would kill off their opposition is illogical and does not make any point other than the ignorance of the one making it.


*** --- History shows us(open a History book)that world leaders tend to go overboard with power, there are countless examples of this. To think that America is different is like standing out in a lightning storm after being struck several times before. Governments do lie, they are out just as much for themselves as they are you, if not more. This isn't conspiracy, it's backed by history. The only thing that is different is names and geography.


**** --- If your a conspiracy theorist, then think of this. If your a shadowy government figure which is looking to have their people believe their lies, would you blatantly serve the lies on a plate for dinner or do you think they would space it out, maybe mix it in with a little truth? Of course the second one seems more effective, because if you mix truth and lies, it's harder to weed out the garden of truth of the lies sprouting out of it. To think authority is lying because it's authority is foolish because if they are truly sneaky, surely they are more sneaky than that.


***** --- Every story has it's strong points and weak points, conspiracy or official story or the other alternatives. That is what makes them theories and not facts. So, to believe that a flaw in a story makes it wrong or makes it a conspiracy is to believe that your conspiracy theory is wrong or is a conspiracy simply because all of the things aren't as they should seem in your, or another's mind.


I hope this hasn't been too boring of a read by those who have read it, but I figured I would put in my part.

The Protector, ShadowOfTheWest, TheLoneWhiteWolf


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#68    anthonybones

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 11:30 AM

It's an interesting subject. I've only just joined but am really interested in this stuff. I tried (unsuccessfully) to get into an event run by a secret society. Until that point, I was convinced they were probably another myth or conspiracy theory, but during that process I definitely found out they exist! I think everyone assumes things are not real, until they personally encounter them. It's like religion, some people will only believe if you show them a miracle first hand. Then we believe the religion because of the report by the people who saw the miracle, and so it goes on. People want proof but until then, everything's a conspiracy theory!

I just read this link (from www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184476) which is about the masons etc. It suggests the world is like a giant company with workers and managers. And therefore there will be shareholders who might not be seen but have the biggest influence. It's quite relevant to this post: http://secretscults....-our-world.html

Personally, I think where there's smoke, there's fire!


#69    Rosewin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 06:46 AM

Hey Fernando, I fell right on the same horizontal line as you but a few more spaces to the left.

Everyone here also sucks for not taking the quiz regarding how prone you are to believe in conspiracy theories that I posted a link to a few pages back, j/k, but some others should take it so I can compare my score with yours.

As far as conspiracy theories, things like our vote not really counting in Presidential elections is not really CT. Just because most common Americans are unaware of the electoral college does not mean it is a CT and the information regarding how it all works is in the open. What it is is the first part of B&C. Bread and circuses, entertainment, just so others can feel their vote counts and they have participated. Elections are also quite gladitorial.

Same thing goes for companies sending our best jobs overseas, importing immigrants to do their cheap labor here, and schools are not failing but intentionally not teaching because companies also want those who fail there to become cheap labor for them too. Well the last part might be CT about schools not teaching on purpose but the first regarding jobs is pretty much information that is not hidden. Again just because most don't know how it works does not make it CT.

View Postdarkmoonlady, on 07 June 2010 - 04:52 PM, said:

Conspiracy theories work on the same level as religion, making people feel as thought they possess some special knowledge the majority of the rest of the world has no idea about. Conspiracy theories imbue the person with the false idea that they are in on something that is forbidden, secret, esoteric, and the rest of us who don't know are rubes and suckers for not seeing what is supposedly cleary right in our face.

Do I believe that some conspiracies happen, for sure, we know about the US government doing some very bad things like testing radiation on people who did not agree to have it tested on them. Sources here: Human Radiation Experiments

However where conspiracy theorists fail...and fail repeatedly is action. I read and discuss with CT's all the time and they will talk endlessly about whatever theories they think are valid and true. The second you ask them what they personally do about it, suddenly they throw a huge tantrum, or when asked for actual viable, supportive evidence it is met with well it is a secret. If it is such a secret how did you, an ordinary person come to "know" all this information?

Again they want to feel special, and if it takes believing trumped up silly stories and pretending that they are in on some grand secret they'll swallow hook line and sinker just to be percieved as not like the rest of us...

Sounds as if she is the only one wanting to hold things over people's head and somehow make those who believe in CT as inferior.

Not like anyone has to spend time around those going on about CT it is doubtful all that she said.

Also religion is way more than that. In fact in Moorish Spain all religions were allowed to be practiced openly and everyone got along. Christians, Jews, and Muslims. No one held their religion over anyone's head there.

Most likely some still practiced the old ways too. Sounds like someone just has a grudge against religion. Sure they should stay out of politics, especially with divisive issues or when trying to control others through laws, but there is way much more to religion than that. Think about the bigger picture unless that is too CT for you....

Edited by Rosewin, 22 June 2010 - 07:01 AM.


#70    Original GG

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 01:45 AM

Well,speaking as a conspiracy theorist,I only believe in conspiracies if they are true. I hate the fact that the government won't tell us the truth.
Yes,some conspiracys are completely ridiculous and some lack the proof needed for it to be taken seriously but there are some,which I will list here that people seriously need to take into consideration.

1.Nasa landing on the moon -That was fake. Here's a sweet doccumentary. Moon Landing Hoax Doccumentary Part 1

2.JFK- He was shot by more than one shooter- another doccumentary-Beyond Conspiracy:JFK Part 1

3.Big Brother- We ARE being spied on. Nobody can deny that. Another doccumentary from my boy Jesse Ventura-Big Brother:Conspiracy Theory Part 1

4.Global Warming-This one is debatable,because I can even admit that the Earth is getting warmer,and climate change is a ongoing problem,but is there more to it than that?-Global Warming:Conspiracy Theory Part 1

5.Vietnam War- By now it is a known fact that the Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened. Here's a sweet site with information on that,9/11 and more.Truth Movement.com/Gulf of Tonkin

There is many more I could post but I have to go get some Mountain Dew,and if your interested in this stuff definetly check out 60 Minutes Doccumentarys and the rest of season 1 of Jesse Venturas' "Conspiracy Theory" episodes on YouTube,or on TruTV.Also Jesses' book "American Conspiracies" is fantastic,but there are many other books and movies/TV shows that deal with these subjects. I guess Jesse is just cooler than the rest of them. :lol:

Weirdest Mysteries: 1.UFO's/Area 51
                    2.The Belmez Faces
                    3.CIA/FBI/Presidential Conspiracies (Watergate,9/11,JFK,Big Brother,Bush hacking election,etc)
                    4.Pyramids
                    5.Crop Circles




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