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Why do you believe in UFO's and aliens?


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#211    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:59 AM

Arnold in fact spent decades investigating hundreds of UFO sightings, and had some unusual stories to tell, such as that Marine transport plane he was searching for on the day he saw his UFOS.

“The Marine Corps transport plane’s wreckage that Arnold was searching for the day he saw the nine saucers supposedly had thirty-two Marines aboard, but the head of the three-man search team that climbed up to the crash site on the side of Mount Rainier told Arnold that they found no bodies, no bones, no blood although the fuselage was fairly intact. Everything else, including the luggage of the thirty-two Marines was still on board. Arnold said the Navy first claimed mountain lions dragged the bodies off and later stated that the bodies were never brought down because the wreck occurred in a very inaccessible place."

http://www.mufon.com...att/kenarn.html


He believed that the UFOs were kidnapping people, as well as shooting down planes, and that it happened far more than the military dared to admit.  From what I've read, Arnold thought that the UFOs were ET and not friendly.


#212    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:01 AM

I do admire the tenacity of those who cling so doggedly to the "it was the northrop/Horten Flying Wings, that's what it was" theory, but I'm afraid in the face of all the facts and common sense, the case is pretty well untenable, but credit to the people who do for persistence, at least, I suppose. The case seems to be base entirely on this argument

Quote

What we do know is that we have something that looks exactly like that which Kenneth Arnold drew. How is that explained? And why would he then write to the defence department with his fears of a terrestrial nature?
which is really no different at all from "it was clearly a metallic object that did manuevers that we could not possibly do, so there it must be an alien spacecraft", really.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


Posted Image


#213    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:01 AM

According to Arnold, the funeral they held for the Marines had 32 coffins with no bodies in them.  He had collected a number of strange stories like that over the decades.


#214    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:20 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 23 October 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

This was the original Arnold drawing, which made them look flatter and more disc-like:

Posted Image

Posted Image


Or perhaps even like this:

Posted Image
Indeed, that makes the "Secret Aircraft" theory on even shakier ground, doesn't it.

**
Has anyone considered that the person who drew the famous artist's impression that Arnold is depicted holding might have drawn it, consciously or subconsciously, with some detail added to look like what they thought an advanced aircraft would look like? ... i.e. that the artist may have been influenced by the Flying Wings himself, and Arnold's description have been elaborated slightly?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


Posted Image


#215    synchronomy

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:15 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 23 October 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

Do not countries that are claiming to be open and honest about the UFO phenomena falsify this though? Brazil for instance claims it has opened it's files.

Examples:

France opens up its UFO files

France became the first country to open its files on UFOs on Thursday when the national space agency unveiled a website documenting more than 1600 sightings spanning five decades.

LINK


Brazilian Air Force Opens Its UFO Files

In accordance with the important of campaign UFO: Freedom of Information Now and publisher of Magazine UFO J. Gevaerd, the representatives of the Aeronautics had been serious, transparent and considerate how much to the claims of the ufologists. "This was a first contact with the officers, new chances will appear and who knows in a next future will be able to establish partnerships to organize research related to Phenomenon UFO.

LINK


And then we have the Disclosure project assuring us that disclosure is just around the corner.


UFO FILES - COUNTRIES RELEASING

LINK

Canada and Britain have released files too.  Since I'm in Canada, I went through the details at some length, and it was fruitless.  It was mainly copies of reports by various police agencies and others giving the original documents relating to the sightings.  Very little conclusive evidence.  I went through some of the British ones too, since I am originally from there, and I found the same things.
There was no evidence that I could see of any on-going research into the phenomenon.

View Postpsyche101, on 23 October 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

If they have a cloaking ability, then why would some people see them and never someone with telescope pointed out of the system? Does not the frequency of alleged sightings not make it likely that if such technology was deployed that it would not be constant? And then we have to ask, how many of these alleged aliens are supposedly here? Some claim up to 57 species visiting, and they all have the same tech? Except us?
And what about ones that do show up on RADAR? How come they are never ever tracked leaving or entering the planet? Why is every single incident on our soil, and not in the skies?

It strikes me that as every single UFO answer to date has come from beneath out feet, that the trend is likely to continue?
I can't speculate on the how's of why's of "cloaking".  It's speculation on my part...just a possible scenario.  Perhaps they only become visible under certain conditions, which the ET's can't control.  Maybe at high speed in space they are completely invisible, then slowed down in our atmosphere we see them intermittently.  Just speculation.
You mention 57 species.  I believe that comes from one of the Disclosure Project witnesses, Clifford Stone.  I believe many of the DP witnesses, but although I believe Stone has some knowledge of ET's, I think he has embellished it dramatically.
Here's his website.  His descriptions of the various races sounds very Sheldan Nidle "ish" to me.  Just my opinion on him.
http://www.bibliotec...autor_stone.htm

View Postpsyche101, on 23 October 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

How could an advanced species think the US is the one who calls the shots for the entire planet? To be fair, this does not sound like an advanced species, but rather the opposite? It seems rather strange that an advanced species would be controlled by a lesser species?
And what about Rebel aliens? None want to make contact and see for themselves? I would bet a human would?
Who knows.  Perhaps the US does have a crashed vehicle and they have a couple of recovered bodies.  Maybe somehow that gave them a bargaining chip with the ET's.  Maybe those ET's are in some way "in charge" of all the visiting species in some sort of "galactic federation".
Maybe the US recognized the global interest in the ETH long ago, and decided to take the lead and portray a false image that they are somehow calling the shots for the entire planet.  That wouldn't surprise me, as the Wikileaks released documents clearly showed there are few nations that the US doesn't take an interest in.

View Postpsyche101, on 23 October 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

That is the thing. Governments hate each other, I do not understand where any illusions of them "working together" exist. It's the US ETH and the rest of the world ETH. The Twain never meets. Like I said, the entire UN cannot even keep the Sea Shepard out of the water, I do not see any collusion existing currently even to benefit ourselves?
There is probably only an appearance of collusion.  If all nations have a similar agenda relating to the ETH, then it would give the illusion that they are working together.

View Postpsyche101, on 23 October 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

What I cannot figure out is why would say China for example not tell the World that the US is receiving interstellar visitors? What reason could they have to keep quiet? This is what happened every time a Government did not play by the rules, as per the examples set out in the previous post. It is not an illusion of conspiracy between the US and China, and I do not think anyone has suggested that, but for the ETH to be at all possible, this must be so, and not illusion, but real collusion. But how so? The world does not work like that, and never has?

Cheers.
Since all nations want everyone else to believe that they have something up their sleeve regarding ET's they all stay quiet.  The less said, the more people will speculate.  Also, perhaps a bit of diplomacy.  If China announces,  "the US government is engaged in contact with ET's", a few things may happen...probably many.
- the US discredits the statement because China can't prove it
-  China, by making the claim, gives the appearance that they do not have any ongoing contact
-  China loses credibility because many people worldwide believe the ETH is all smoke and mirrors

So, unless China can prove their statement beyond any shadow of doubt, all that would happen is that they would look silly to the rest of the World
First they would have to prove ET's are visiting, then they would have to prove ongoing contact with the USA, which would have to involve some high level spying going on.

Seem it's a lot easier for all if they keep their mouths shut...which adds to the speculation of collusion between nations.

Edited by synchronomy, 23 October 2012 - 02:29 PM.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#216    mcrom901

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:52 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 23 October 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

You mean the old prospector who saw them too?

saw them? you mean the 'objects'?

i was specifically referring to the 'winged' object...

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 23 October 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

I think I read that in the records somewhere.


Fred Johnson, resident of First Avenue, Portland (Oregon), reported without consulting any records that on June 24, 1947, while prospecting at a point in the Cascade Mountains approximately five thousand feet from sea level, during the afternoon he noticed a reflection, looked up, and saw a disc proceeding in a southeasterly direction. Immediately upon sighting this object he placed his telescope to his eye and observed the disc for approximately forty-five to sixty seconds. He remarked that it is possible for him to pick up an object at a distance of ten miles with his telescope.

At the time the disc was sighted by Johnson it was banking in the sun, and he observed five or six similar objects but only concentrated on one. He related that they did not fly in any particular formation and that he would estimate their height to be about one thousand feet from where he was standing. He said the object was about thirty feet in diameter and appeared to have a tail. It made no noise. According to Johnson he remained in the vicinity of the Cascades for several days and then returned to Portland and noted an article in the local paper which stated in effect that a man in Boise, Idaho, had sighted a similar object but that authorities had disclaimed any knowledge of such an object.

He said he communicated with the Army for the sole purpose of attempting to add credence to the story furnished by the man in Boise. Johnson also related that on the occasion of his sighting the objects on June 24, 1947 he had in his possession a combination compass and watch. He noted particularly that immediately before he sighted the disc the compass acted very peculiar, the hand waving from one side to the other, but that this condition corrected itself immediately after the discs had passed out of sight. Informant appeared to be a very reliable individual who advised that he had been a prospector in the states of Montana, Washington and Oregon for the past forty years.



http://brumac.8k.com...LD/KARNOLD.html

nothing about the shape which arnold had mentioned seeing... :no:


#217    mcrom901

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:55 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 23 October 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

"He claimed that the objects were "round" and also "oval," thus generally agreeing with Arnold's
description of nearly round objects (certainly they they weren't square or triangular or T
shaped)"


i don't suppose that agrees with arnold's description.... :passifier:

Edited by mcrom901, 23 October 2012 - 03:03 PM.


#218    mcrom901

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:00 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 23 October 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

This was the original Arnold drawing, which made them look flatter and more disc-like:

Posted Image

Posted Image

and what translates those objects to 'mechanical flying thingys'?

how were uaps ruled out?

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 23 October 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

Or perhaps even like this:

Posted Image

sorry, but you cannot jump from flashing / shiny disk like objects to imagined crafts like those... nops :alien:

Edited by mcrom901, 23 October 2012 - 03:02 PM.


#219    Bw1234

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:48 PM

"Why do you believe in UFO's and aliens?"

Because we can't be the only place in the universe with life on it.
What we be the point of there being billions of galaxies and planets of there was only 1 which had life on it?
For that reason there has to be some sort of ET life.

Edited by Bw1234, 23 October 2012 - 04:48 PM.


#220    synchronomy

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:57 PM

View PostBw1234, on 23 October 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

"Why do you believe in UFO's and aliens?"

Because we can't be the only place in the universe with life on it.
What we be the point of there being billions of galaxies and planets of there was only 1 which had life on it?
For that reason there has to be some sort of ET life.

I agree.

One thing the natural world is not, is wasteful.  Miriads of species have filled near every nook and cranny of our planet.  I believe it's fair to assume that can be extrapolated to apply to the Universe as a whole.

I would find it more of a "shock" if we somehow determined that the only life in the Universe is here on Earth, than if we found we are part of a Universe teeming with life.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#221    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:17 PM

View Postmcrom901, on 23 October 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

and what translates those objects to 'mechanical flying thingys'?

how were uaps ruled out?

sorry, but you cannot jump from flashing / shiny disk like objects to imagined crafts like those... nops :alien:


Now you see why I usually don't answer mcrom, because he's basically one of the UM jokers.   Yesterday, though, he seemed pretty insistent that I answer him so I did, but I knew he was just trying to be funny--as usual.


#222    Bw1234

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:55 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 23 October 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:



I agree.

One thing the natural world is not, is wasteful.  Miriads of species have filled near every nook and cranny of our planet.  I believe it's fair to assume that can be extrapolated to apply to the Universe as a whole.

I would find it more of a "shock" if we somehow determined that the only life in the Universe is here on Earth, than if we found we are part of a Universe teeming with life.

It would definitely be more of a shock of we were to find out there is nothing else here.
Unfortunately, we will never be able to go the further reaches of the universe because we simply don't have the technology to do it and will not in our lifetimes. We can look at stars and galaxies that are thousands of light years away but can't see if anything is there. There has to be something else out there though.


#223    mcrom901

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 23 October 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Now you see why I usually don't answer mcrom, because he's basically one of the UM jokers.   Yesterday, though, he seemed pretty insistent that I answer him so I did, but I knew he was just trying to be funny--as usual.

i'm afraid that you not having an answer doesn't mean that the joke isn't on you in this case... :mellow:


#224    mcrom901

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:24 PM

View Post747400, on 23 October 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Has anyone considered that the person who drew the famous artist's impression that Arnold is depicted holding might have drawn it, consciously or subconsciously, with some detail added to look like what they thought an advanced aircraft would look like? ... i.e. that the artist may have been influenced by the Flying Wings himself, and Arnold's description have been elaborated slightly?

mcguf?

^_^


#225    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:53 PM

View Postmcrom901, on 23 October 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:


i'm afraid that you not having an answer doesn't mean that the joke isn't on you in this case... :mellow:

I'm not taking the bait any more, mcrom.





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