10148 replies to this topic

[zoser]

scowl, on 04 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

So has anyone generated any electricity from granite in their lab yet? That should be an easy Mythbusters experiment.

Nobody knows for sure exactly why the rocks ring like bells when struck with a hammer is a mystery. The rocks do contain a significant amount of iron, which might be part of the explanation. However, the high iron content doesn’t explain two other strange qualities that the rocks possess . . . Not all of the rocks ring when struck, and they don’t ring when they are removed from the site, suggesting that the ringing has something to do with the way the rocks lay against one another. Larger flat ones seem to produce an especially impressive sound when struck.
Compared to the neighbors .

The Ringing Rocks are very small part (160 acres) of a mountainous region called the Boulder Batholith, which encompasses a large portion of southwestern Montana. Batholiths originate when magma cools slowly beneath the surface to form granite.

Read more.......

http://formontana.net/ringing.html

Edited by zoser, 04 February 2013 - 07:53 PM.

[zoser]

scowl, on 04 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Yes, if you're not talking volts and amps, you're not talking about electricity.




Volts + Amps = Electricity. Ringing = noise which is not electricity.

Give me x number of volts and y number of amps and z number of seconds they were produced.

Ringing = resonance = mechanical stress = piezo = voltage = DYOR

[zoser]

scowl, on 04 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Yes, if you're not talking volts and amps, you're not talking about electricity.

Give me x number of volts and y number of amps and z number of seconds they were produced.

Give me patience to deal with lazy people who expect everyone else to do their work for them.

[scowl]

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Nobody knows for sure exactly why the rocks ring like bells when struck with a hammer is a mystery. The rocks do contain a significant amount of iron, which might be part of the explanation. However, the high iron content doesn’t explain two other strange qualities that the rocks possess . . . Not all of the rocks ring when struck, and they don’t ring when they are removed from the site, suggesting that the ringing has something to do with the way the rocks lay against one another. Larger flat ones seem to produce an especially impressive sound when struck.

What are you talking about? Sound is not electricity!

[seeder]

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[scowl]

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

Ringing = resonance = mechanical stress = piezo = voltage = DYOR

= 0 volts.

So the answer is no. Thank you.

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Give me patience to deal with lazy people who expect everyone else to do their work for them.

Tell me about it. I just had to explain to you what electricity is.

[zoser]

scowl, on 04 February 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

What are you talking about? Sound is not electricity!

The granite in the upper chamber of the GP is partially isolated from the core masonry.  The so called relieving chambers above the upper chamber comprise of immense granite beams, (70 tonnes) rough hewn not properly finished as we see in the upper chamber alluding to the idea that the beams had granite systematically removed in an attempt to tune them in the same way that metal is removed from a bell when it is tuned.

The earth has a natural vibratory frequency somewhere in the range of 8Hz.  The pyramids large ground area would make the building susceptible to these vibrations which if tuning conditions were perfect would cause the granite to ring or resonate.  This would be a self intensifying effect because of the special design of the grand gallery.  Like a feedback or amplification effect.  At the end of the grand gallery is a solid granite plug.

Resonance causes high mechanical stress.  We know this from wine glasses that shatter and bridges that fracture when troops march on then in synchrony.  If the resonance had a cyclic nature to it it is conceivable that the quartz inside the granite (bearing mind this is probably thousands of tonnes worth) would activate the piezo effect causing huge electrical discharges.

The interior core masonry contains magnesium and would be a partially conductive.  The exterior masonry contained more calcium which would act as a partial insulator creating an electrical furnace effect.  The net effect would be a huge electromagnetic radiant effect.

That in principle is the operation of the GP.

scowl, on 04 February 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

= 0 volts.

So the answer is no. Thank you.

Tell me about it. I just had to explain to you what electricity is.

Really.

Edited by zoser, 04 February 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[bmk1245]

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Nobody knows for sure exactly why the rocks ring like bells when struck with a hammer is a mystery. [...]

Wrong. Its covered by theory of elasticity.

[zoser]

bmk1245, on 04 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Wrong. Its covered by theory of elasticity.

Electric Arc Furnaces

Electric arc furnaces are often used in large steel foundries and steel mills. The metal is charged into the furnace, with additives to make recovery of slag easier, and heat to melt the metal is produced with an electric arc from three carbon or granite electrodes. The electric arc furnace is lined with refractories which slowly decompose and are removed with slag. Electric arc furnaces also usually employ air emissions equipment to capture most air pollution.

http://infohouse.p2r...78/chapter3.htm

bmk1245, on 04 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Wrong. Its covered by theory of elasticity.

Better let them know.

[scowl]

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

The granite in the upper chamber of the GP is partially isolated from the core masonry.  The so called relieving chambers above the upper chamber comprise of immense granite beams, (70 tonnes) rough hewn not properly finished as we see in the upper chamber alluding to the idea that the beams had granite systematically removed in an attempt to tune them in the same way that metal is removed from a bell when it is tuned...

So this is when you can't answer a question (in this case, electricity) so you change the subject to something completely unrelated.

Please post the voltage and amperage that has been produced by granite. If you can't, then stop talking about granite generating electricity.

[zoser]

scowl, on 04 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

Please post the voltage and amperage that has been produced by granite. If you can't, then stop talking about granite generating electricity.

It contains quartz.  How can it not?

Just because it is not a part of modern technological practice doesn't say it's not possible.

The logistics say it is.

Edited by zoser, 04 February 2013 - 08:28 PM.

[scowl]

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

Electric arc furnaces are often used in large steel foundries and steel mills. The metal is charged into the furnace, with additives to make recovery of slag easier, and heat to melt the metal is produced with an electric arc from three carbon or granite electrodes.

Yes, the external electricity is generated and applied to the electrodes. They don't generate the electricity. This is like saying a light bulb generates electricity. It consumes electricity.

You're still at zero volts, zoser.

[zoser]

scowl, on 04 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

Yes, the external electricity is generated and applied to the electrodes. They don't generate the electricity. This is like saying a light bulb generates electricity. It consumes electricity.

You're still at zero volts, zoser.

I understand that.  Just another curious tie up that's all.

Nothing disproves the idea that mechanically resonating granite cannot create the piezo effect.

Edited by zoser, 04 February 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[scowl]

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

It contains quartz.  How can it not?

Because the quartz crystals in granite are separated by highly insulative feldspar crystals which prevent any current produced by the quartz to conduct electricity out of the material. Granite is about 80% insulative material. That's why piezoelectric devices like microphones use 100% raw quartz.

Quote

Just because it is not a part of modern technological practice doesn't say it's not possible.

The logistics say it is.

Then it would be very easy to measure the electricity generated by it, wouldn't it? You're still at zero volts.

[Oniomancer]

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Mknowles, I mentioned that Granite has that ringing. I didn't say that marble does. I think that marble, being a sedimentary rock, has more in common with limestone, than with granite. Therefore, I would guess that marble would not ring much, or at all. However, it does break very easily, if it is not supported fully from the bottom. As such, I would not expect it to be suitable for shelving on an audio rack.

As far as granite ringing, I know that 3/8" thick definitely does, and I haven't done specific tests on other thicknesses. I have read some material that referred to granite TT bases causing unwanted resonances.

http://forum.audiogo...&keyw

Looks like quite a common phenomena.  References to it everywhere.

Couple problems with the above.

Like granite, limestone varies significantly. There's a variety called Taihu I think once prized by the Chinese for viewing stones, which was noted for it's ringing tone when struck.

In the audio sites they're also dealing with relatively thin base slabs which resonate at a higher frequency, which happens to be within the frequency range of the amps. A thicker piece wouldn't necessarily do that, so using it as an example is meaningless. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, everything rings...if you match it's resonance frequency. But don't take my word for it. Find some granite near you and see what you get.

zoser, on 04 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Nobody knows for sure exactly why the rocks ring like bells when struck with a hammer is a mystery. The rocks do contain a significant amount of iron, which might be part of the explanation. However, the high iron content doesn’t explain two other strange qualities that the rocks possess . . . Not all of the rocks ring when struck, and they don’t ring when they are removed from the site, suggesting that the ringing has something to do with the way the rocks lay against one another. Larger flat ones seem to produce an especially impressive sound when struck.
Compared to the neighbors .

The Ringing Rocks are very small part (160 acres) of a mountainous region called the Boulder Batholith, which encompasses a large portion of southwestern Montana. Batholiths originate when magma cools slowly beneath the surface to form granite.

Read more.......

http://formontana.net/ringing.html

Here again, you've managed to single out an example of granite that displays abnormal ringing compared to ordinary granite, even the same granite in close proximity. That's not helping your conclusion.