62 replies to this topic

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 01 October 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Your faith is one of the greatest threats to world stability at the moment because it is an article of your faith that we will all be consumed in an Armageddon battle. The very act of having that faith means that people like Romney have a fighting chance of having their finger on the button - and he shares your delusion in the end times. Your voting right is a threat to me personally.
There are checks and balances in Governments which mean it is very unlikely that either Israel or Iran will release a nuclear attack. However there is no checks and balances on religious fanatics and the atrocities they are capable of unleashing.

Your very existence (and your fellow believers) means that I am more likely to die in a Nuclear holocaust at any moment. That is what scares me.


Br Cornelius

Pray tell how would you know what system of security Iran - a Shia twelver State at the moment - would have?  The fact that religious fanatics will have access to these weapons is exactly the point.  You seem to fear the wrong group.  The so called fanatics of western Judeo Christian origin have kept a nuclear peace for decades.  Yet when Iran's mullahs start raving about wiping people off the map/pages of history you don't worry over that at all.  Why is that Brutha?  Don't bother with the semantic and translational arguments please... a person has to be a fool to mistake his intentions.

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 02 October 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Faith is by no means the only path to human destruction - to argue otherwise would be folly.
However believing a myth which states that such a death is inevitable regardless of what we actually do - is intrinsically dangerous.

I will not accept that a legend that says that there are end times is valid and will not accept the assumptions that such a blief ultimately leads to are acceptable in the human world. I cannot ascent to a set of beliefs which have no objective reality which has manifested to me in any way. I refuse to submit to superstition and the consequences of superstition.

Br Cornelius

First of all that "myth" is very real to many millions of human beings.  But leaving it aside for the moment, do you really believe we are capable of finding some path to a better world than the billions who have come before us?  I truly admire the faith this ascribes to you but I wonder if you really believe it?  Worsening and continual warfare have been mankind's greatest enduring legacy.  I find it to be at least mildly arrogant that you so casually believe that WE in THIS century have or will have the answers that have eluded everyone who came before us.  The ultimate crash that I believe is foretold is not brought about by the messengers, it is coming regardless whether the message is broadcast or not.  Whether you feel it is all superstition or not is immaterial to what is coming.  I cite the M.E. as the perfect example.  The same arguments for the same reasons for hundreds of years and no matter how much blood is spilled or treasure is spent it never gets any better.

[and then]

Babe Ruth, on 02 October 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

What I believe AND THEN, is that your worldview is completely and utterly a result of what you are told by the mainstream media.

If it says Iraq was a threat to the national security of the US, you believe it.  If you are told that Iran is a threat to the entire world including the US, you believe it, no questions asked.

If you are told that Bradley Manning is a threat to the national security of the US, and that he may be tortured while he is being held, you believe it.

That's where I'm at AND THEN.  No offense intended, just an opinion after months of reading your posts.  That's the only way I know you.

You have mischaracterized my opinions of Manning since day one.  First you defined his placement in solitary as torture.  I disagree with this.  Then you say I am supportive of torture in his case - a lie.  Bradley Manning is a self serving punk, imo.  He wore the uniform of this country and then stole secrets he never would have had access to otherwise and gave them to Assange - I believe, for political reasons and self aggrandizement.  But if I'm wrong and he is a choir boy who just couldn't stand the dissonance associated with knowledge which came from his job he still is guilty under the UCMJ.  He still has to be punished or there will be no way to maintain secrets within the military.  Frankly, unless you feel the military should just pack up and go back to life on the street, leaving our country defenseless, then secrets are and always will be necessary.  Those who do not understand or accept this are unbelievably naive imo.

[lightly]

a nuclear bomb cartoon!?   .. what is this   grade school?

[and then]

lightly, on 03 October 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

a nuclear bomb cartoon!?   .. what is this   grade school?

I thought it was appropriate to the level of seriousness the world seems to be intent on giving this issue.  I think the powers that be don't care about Israel's existence and think that interfering with business can be avoided awhile longer.

[MiskatonicGrad]

and then don't get your panties in a bunch over Ahmadinejad's mad ravings about wiping Israel off the map no country in the world would support him not even Russia and he knows that. He's just wants to stay relevent in the world stage. when all of his nuclear scientist were getting offed he was blustering about closing the straits of hormuz. how far did that get him? he knows we could sink his navy to the point he couldn't so much as put a man in a rowboat with AK in the water. He can see the writing on the wall his days are numbered. Israel knows this to.

On a lighter note I hope you get to go to Israel it is full of some of the most beautiful people I have ever met. and since they have a heavily armed populance you don't have to worry about petty crime but you do have to worry about becoming nothing more than a grease spot on a wall from a car bomb. Price you have to pay for living in chosen land I guess.

[DieChecker]

and then, on 28 September 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

And if Iran announces they are becoming a nuclear power "out of necessity" in a few months or a year, will we expect to see you condemn it?  I think everyone here who treats this as a purely political problem are extremely short sighted and the thing causing your myopia is your regard for anything that might harm Israel.  An Iranian bomb is going to affect the GLOBE in a negative way.

I agree it is short sighted. Why the hell is there a Non-proliferation Treaty at all then, right? The UN has put sanctions on Iran to pressure it to Proove it is being peaceful and it will not. So... we can assume they are stupid and stubborn, or we can assume they are actually dangerous and stupid. Either way they are right now being Stupid.

Br Cornelius already said that he does think it will be OK. Iran will never use any bomb it developed. That would be like Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, or the Nazis invading Poland... it will just never happen. They would have to be totally controlled by crazy religious nutters to do something like that. Oh... Wait.....

Br Cornelius, on 28 September 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

So Iran is personally going to invade the whole of the world - because thats the only way they will convert the Western countries.
When was the last time you saw a whole country voluntarily convert to Islam or Christianity - the answer is simple - NEVER.

When do you predict that America will have reached 50% Muslim ? Or when do you predict that Iran will invade America ?

Setting up Mosques and persuading a few gullible fools to convert may frighten you - but it runs against the tide of history.

I would say that there is a very high probability that the theocracy ruling Iran will fall in short order, since it has failed to deliver on all the promises it made to its citizens. The Iranians are some of the most culturally sophisticated people in the world with an immense history behind them - they know when they are onto a losing deal.  Such is the destiny of all Utopian fantasies.

Your so absolutely comical in your paranoia

Br Cornelius

I hope you are right, but I don't see the Theocracy going away anytime soon. I think if any revolution was to happen, it would be the intellectuals that would get wiped out, rather then the working class. The last elections there were a clear indication that the educated and intellectuals who voted against Amadinashod (Sp?) are not in a position to win anything.

I don't think a Muslim takeover of the world is the actual Threat here. The threat is a bomb being made and "accidentally" getting into the hands of some terrorist agency. At that point it could end up anywhere, and Iran would be responsible, but wouldn't have to face a war, or even very bad kickback from the UN. After all, the nuke was stolen...

Why is it better to allow Iran technology it does not need, rather then potentially saving a million lives? If it is even ten thousand to one, why risk the lives fellow humans for something Iran does not need?

The New Richard Nixon, on 28 September 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

He is a nazi and a bad leader

And that would make it OK to kill his citizens?

Does or does not Iran want to kill Israelis? If they caught 2 Israeli backpackers on their border would they simply deport them or do something worse?

Br Cornelius, on 01 October 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

I hold the fear of Iran holding a Nuclear Bomb equally with the fear of Israel holding a nuclear bomb. I leave it up to you to decide how afraid I actually am by either.

One thing is for certain - I fear people like yourself far more.

Br Cornelius

So, if Isreal having nukes is scary, why invite another to the table? If there are 20 people who have guns, and are pointing them at each other, why is having one more Better? Especially if it is a crazed religious nutter? The logic is flawed that would allow Iran to build a bomb by simply trusting that they won't. The UN has sanctions against Iran because Iran will not show us anyone enough to Trust them.

Babe Ruth, on 02 October 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

If you are told that Bradley Manning is a threat to the national security of the US,

Because he is the single most productive spy against the US ever. At least in how mahy documents he delivered.

[Raptor Witness]

Br Cornelius, on 02 October 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Faith is by no means the only path to human destruction - to argue otherwise would be folly.
However believing a myth which states that such a death is inevitable regardless of what we actually do - is intrinsically dangerous.

I will not accept that a legend that says that there are end times is valid and will not accept the assumptions that such a blief ultimately leads to are acceptable in the human world. I cannot ascent to a set of beliefs which have no objective reality which has manifested to me in any way. I refuse to submit to superstition and the consequences of superstition.

Br Cornelius

Keeping a few lions in the back yard, while telling everyone they're just house cats is a far more dangerous "myth," than ritualized warnings about such practices.

[Babe Ruth]

and then, on 02 October 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

You have mischaracterized my opinions of Manning since day one.  First you defined his placement in solitary as torture.  I disagree with this.  Then you say I am supportive of torture in his case - a lie.  Bradley Manning is a self serving punk, imo.  He wore the uniform of this country and then stole secrets he never would have had access to otherwise and gave them to Assange - I believe, for political reasons and self aggrandizement.  But if I'm wrong and he is a choir boy who just couldn't stand the dissonance associated with knowledge which came from his job he still is guilty under the UCMJ.  He still has to be punished or there will be no way to maintain secrets within the military.  Frankly, unless you feel the military should just pack up and go back to life on the street, leaving our country defenseless, then secrets are and always will be necessary.  Those who do not understand or accept this are unbelievably naive imo.

The way I see it sir, is that if you are not willing to denounce torture, you necessarily support torture.  Sleep deprivation and clothes deprivation is torture and dehumanizing treatment, in violation of the laws of decency and international laws and the UCMJ.  You accept these things, and you condone them, and you approve of them.  This has been evident from the start.

The military should speak up and obey its own UCMJ, which it has not.  Soldiers are supposed to be brought to trial in 120 days.  Manning has been held for something over 900 by now.

Manning made public war crimes.  And somehow or other, you seem to think he should be prosecuted for revealing government crimes.   Sad situation sir, especially for a self-described christian.

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 02 October 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

First of all that "myth" is very real to many millions of human beings.  But leaving it aside for the moment, do you really believe we are capable of finding some path to a better world than the billions who have come before us?  I truly admire the faith this ascribes to you but I wonder if you really believe it?  Worsening and continual warfare have been mankind's greatest enduring legacy.  I find it to be at least mildly arrogant that you so casually believe that WE in THIS century have or will have the answers that have eluded everyone who came before us.  The ultimate crash that I believe is foretold is not brought about by the messengers, it is coming regardless whether the message is broadcast or not.  Whether you feel it is all superstition or not is immaterial to what is coming.  I cite the M.E. as the perfect example.  The same arguments for the same reasons for hundreds of years and no matter how much blood is spilled or treasure is spent it never gets any better.

Warfare and violence have been on a steady decline over history. Surprisingly we are one of the most peaceful generations since the Bronze age.
You imagine the opposite mainly because of media exposure.

http://www.ted.com/t...f_violence.html

You should be careful of the myths you believe as most of them are wrong.

I personally attribute this trend to the rise of secularism - but that's just my opinion. Despite what you may think - in most departments things have been getting vastly better for the majority of humanity. The next great challenge is to address the population and poverty explosions of the last century.

One of the great steps forward is the reduction of the influence of dictators - which makes it increasingly unlikely that any sovereign nation will launch an unprovoked nuclear attack on their neighbours.

How does an increasingly peaceful world fit into Biblical prophecy ???

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 03 October 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 03 October 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Warfare and violence have been on a steady decline over history. Surprisingly we are one of the most peaceful generations since the Bronze age.
You imagine the opposite mainly because of media exposure.

http://www.ted.com/t...f_violence.html

You should be careful of the myths you believe as most of them are wrong.

I personally attribute this trend to the rise of secularism - but that's just my opinion. Despite what you may think - in most departments things have been getting vastly better for the majority of humanity. The next great challenge is to address the population and poverty explosions of the last century.

One of the great steps forward is the reduction of the influence of dictators - which makes it increasingly unlikely that any sovereign nation will launch an unprovoked nuclear attack on their neighbours.

How does an increasingly peaceful world fit into Biblical prophecy ???

Br Cornelius

You ask in ridicule but if I answer with scripture you will continue to ridicule. 1 Thessalonians 5:3  When people are saying, "Everything is peaceful and secure," then disaster will fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman's labor pains begin. And there will be no escape.

[DieChecker]

Br Cornelius, on 03 October 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

I personally attribute this trend to the rise of secularism - but that's just my opinion. Despite what you may think - in most departments things have been getting vastly better for the majority of humanity. The next great challenge is to address the population and poverty explosions of the last century.

I'd attribute it to communication and travel improvements. It is a lot easier to move people worldwide and communicate worldwide then it was even 50 years ago. During WWII it took, what, a month, for soldiers to leave NY and show up in England? Today it takes like 8 hours.

[DieChecker]

Br Cornelius, on 03 October 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

How does an increasingly peaceful world fit into Biblical prophecy ???

It leads toward the End Times with one world leader and one "religion", and probably one currency.

Edited by DieChecker, 04 October 2012 - 04:20 AM.

[Raptor Witness]

Br Cornelius, on 03 October 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

.

How does an increasingly peaceful world fit into Biblical prophecy ???

Br Cornelius

The term "prophecy" is misleading, especially when technology is what is being described.

Without dragging you through Scripture, the Biblical forecast is of a false peace, maintained by the threat of man-made fire from heaven. By "false," it implies a replacement of the teachings of Jesus, with a rather bizarre, new form of idolatry. It also says that this peace won't last.

Given the accuracy of the technological forecast, over a millennium in advance, it's hard to dismiss the warning.

If Da Vinci had been a monk, would you have discounted his futuristic drawings based upon his non-secular station in life?

I hope not ...

Edited by Raptor Witness, 04 October 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[Babe Ruth]

Die Checker

Manning was a spy?  I guess that makes Daniel Ellsberg a spy too, because they both did virtually the same thing--reveal the crimes of government.

Are you saying that revealing government crimes is a crime in and of itself?

Does that mean that you are taking the position of the Obama administration--that whistleblowing is a federal crime?