101 replies to this topic

[Purplos]

Quote

If others met your "niceness" with extreme hostility, would you still be nice?

Well, if they were violent to me I'd defend myself, but if they just yelled at me or cursed or whatever, I'd probably say "Sorry to bother you," or say nothing and just walk away.

I think this discussion is interesting. There's such a difference between doing something to get a certain reaction and response, and doing something because you simple want to or are that way. Not that I'm naive, but it kinda boggles my mind that someone would actually not want to be nice ever... just because it's inside them to be so.

Speaking to the general topic of conformity. It seems that anyone who tries to be something other than just what they are is conforming to the culture or fakery and subterfuge that goes on in almost every social situation.

Best way to be a non-conformist? Just be yourself.

Edited by Purplos, 01 December 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Beany]

Monkeys and sheep come to mind for you? Really? How old are you? Ever survived extreme poverty but came out of it a decent human being? Ever lost everything you owned and picked yourself up and soldiered on? Ever had a life threatening illness, disease or accident that challenged you? Ever lost any limbs like our vets and yet managed to still be a decent human being with hope? Ever been raped or molested and still managed to be a productive member of society? Ever saved a life, like our firemen, EMTs, and law enforcement? Ever done any thing even remotely heroic? Ever taken a child under your wing who so desperately needed a friend? Ever talked a friend out of committing suicide? Ever volunteered at your city's homeless shelter or helped cook a meal for the poor? Ever help clean up a beach or a creek? Ever made any life or death decisions? Tell me about your life's experiences that have led you to conclude that most people are monkeys or sheep, and deserving of no respect? Tell me that your opinions are at least informed and have some basis in fact, other than you being just cranky and needing to feel superior to the rest of us "sheep." Tell me why anyone should give any weight to your opinon.

[JGirl]

Beany, on 01 December 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Monkeys and sheep come to mind for you? Really? How old are you? Ever survived extreme poverty but came out of it a decent human being? Ever lost everything you owned and picked yourself up and soldiered on? Ever had a life threatening illness, disease or accident that challenged you? Ever lost any limbs like our vets and yet managed to still be a decent human being with hope? Ever been raped or molested and still managed to be a productive member of society? Ever saved a life, like our firemen, EMTs, and law enforcement? Ever done any thing even remotely heroic? Ever taken a child under your wing who so desperately needed a friend? Ever talked a friend out of committing suicide? Ever volunteered at your city's homeless shelter or helped cook a meal for the poor? Ever help clean up a beach or a creek? Ever made any life or death decisions? Tell me about your life's experiences that have led you to conclude that most people are monkeys or sheep, and deserving of no respect? Tell me that your opinions are at least informed and have some basis in fact, other than you being just cranky and needing to feel superior to the rest of us "sheep." Tell me why anyone should give any weight to your opinon.

wow
did you even read the rest of kazahel's post?
here it is in case you didn't:

"Monkeys and sheep come to mind for me.

Monkey see monkey do. Most people are like sheep, so if you're not a part of the herd then you're exactly that. Then you're like a black sheep. And white sheep wont really understand black sheep because they're too busy following... monkeys?

Anyway in regards to buying christmas gifts. I havent bought a christmas gift for anyone else in my family(a large family)for many years(I dont even spend christmas with them and they live kinda close). I opted out of all that and its the best thing. I can now enjoy christmas without having to stress about buying gifts or the awkwardness of it all. I still buy christmas gifts for my son of course(so I am somewhat forced by society), but other than that I never do. I think people should grow out of it basically and to expect a christmas gift when you are older is bizarre to me. My mother still wants to buy me gifts as formality though because she says I'm her son. So she says its the same as me with my son. I guess I can understand that. Thats why I got a cookie jar yesterday for my birthday. And I do love my new cookie jar I must admit.

So I buy gifts as a form of surprise. I think when people buy gifts simply because society has basically told them to then its not really a gift at all. Its a formality. So imo if someone really wants to give a gift to show appreciation or love then you give it when they least expect it and actually make it a true surprise/gift."

as someone who also does not buy gifts for people simply because i don't believe they have any meaning when they are obligatory (such as christmas and birthdays etc) i understand what he was saying.
no one i know has a problem with it, and when i do give a gift to someone (because i feel moved to do so) they feel extra special because it truly means something.
i never saw anything particularly derogatory in that post, and i assume you just don't like the idea that he considers the general population to be followers.
which btw they are.

[ouija ouija]

I guess what is truly inspiring is that people can be 'monkeys' or 'sheep' and heroes too! Pretty much everybody does something heroic in their lifetime.

[lightly]

... I think some of us have been too hard on you Alienated Being .  My post was insensitive of Your feelings really..(sorry)    I think it's natural for the young to be insensitive to other's feelings  .. more like , unaware?   I was fairly unappreciative of my parents  and oblivious to their needs  ..

You ask a very insightful  and interesting,  and difficult to answer, question ! ...  hope to hear more answers and opinions.

[Beany]

Yeah, pretty much everybody does something heroic. Somehow that is often overlooked in the zeal to attach negative labels to people or groups. I can only surmise that kind of disrespect is a product of youth & inexperience. The longer I live, the greater respect I have for people. When we lump them into one group as sheep or monkeys or the conformist herd we dehumanize them. Nothing good has ever come from dehumanizing people.

[Kazahel]

Beany, on 01 December 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Monkeys and sheep come to mind for you? Tell me about your life's experiences that have led you to conclude that most people are monkeys or sheep, and deserving of no respect?

I never said they dont deserve respect.

I should add that with myself I opt out of many things because of my past. I have PTSD and social avoidance issues. Basically after I had just turned 19, a friend of mine was attacked on news years eve. He was getting beaten very badly at a party and no-one was helping him. He was worried before it happened because he thought something was odd(he was getting stared at) and he asked me to help him if he was in trouble. He was my best friend and I promised I would help. Anyway he was attacked later on and no-one did anything, everyone just watched because the guy who was beating him was large and was like a psycho.

When I saw my friend bleeding lots I knew I had to help him and I had promised him. I was very scared but I tried to stop the fight and grab the guy off him. When I did that this psycho guys best friend attacked me. He was a second dan black belt in karate and he beat the crap out of me, I didnt even try to throw a punch and I only managed to block one kick.. All my front teeth were chipped and I was kneed in the head and then we wrestled on the floor. We wrestled for what seemed like ages and even rolled and broke the side of his house. This made him very mad and he pinned me down and was trying to pin my arms down with his knees so he could just punch away. I think he wouldve almost killed me.

Anyway when this happened I was lucky enough to flick my legs around his neck and I brought him down and trapped him in a lock. I squeezed it so he couldnt get out and I finally felt safe. I said to him that I will only let you go if you stop fighting and that I just want to leave(I wanted to go home). His response was to keep hitting me in the stomach, so I didnt let him go. I asked him again a few moments later and he didnt respond and so I looked up at another friend of mine and asked him to help me up as soon as I let him go. I wanted to basically let him go and kinda make a run for it. So I let him go and got up and quickly walked away, I turned around and thought I saw him getting up and so I left the party and went to friends house close by(it was like our party joined their party).

After washing all the blood off me with my other friend who had been beaten up a friend of both groups(so ours and theirs)came running in and told me I had killed him. He started screaming at me and I didnt believe him. I thought he was trying to get me to go back so the guy could beat me up more. But a police helicopter soon flew over and so I carefully went back and saw the ambulance there. I asked the policeman on the road what happened and he didnt tell me so I said I was the guy in the fight what happened. I was then handcuffed and taken to the station and then later(a few hours later)wrongfully charged with murder.

I was then remanded in custody and didnt get to leave jail for about 5 months. I couldnt get bail because of the charge and pretty much everyone except my best friends hated me. Even the christian girl who I always talked with before(who liked me) never spoke with me again, she crossed the street to avoid me. So eventually I was released with no case to answer at the preliminary hearing on the grounds of self defence and the police were reprimanded for charging me how they did. The only reason they charged me with murder was because the guy who died, his brother was a police officer. I did meet some very interesting characters in jail though and learned how they are just people in the end.

Anyway so after all that I found it quite difficult to be in public, I have been abused by people in public who knew about it, called murderer out loud infront of everyone. But the avoidance and things didnt really kick in until later. I went through drugs and things and eventually after quitting everything I just now stay away from people including most of my family because it reminds me of that time. My family and my old frineds remind me of the past and so I avoid them. I havent even seen my twin sister for about 8 years or any friends for about 10. So now I am stained with it, with that charge and its not something you ever get off you. It's like mud.

So I dont tend to do social things. I felt like society completely turned on me and I've seen how the law acts. Before all this I was like a hippy kid who had just learned Reiki and now I am like I am. So christmas for me and new years felt horrible being around people. I got married on new years to try change that bad time to a happy day but that didnt work out. Anyway so I never said people dont deserve respect. I give more respect to people who most would never consider giving it to or think have lost the right to it.

JGirl, on 01 December 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

wow
did you even read the rest of kazahel's post?
as someone who also does not buy gifts for people simply because i don't believe they have any meaning when they are obligatory (such as christmas and birthdays etc) i understand what he was saying.
no one i know has a problem with it, and when i do give a gift to someone (because i feel moved to do so) they feel extra special because it truly means something.
i never saw anything particularly derogatory in that post, and i assume you just don't like the idea that he considers the general population to be followers.
which btw they are.

Thankyou for understanding my post.

Edited by Kazahel, 02 December 2012 - 03:00 AM.

[Jinxdom]

Why do people get the idea that comparing people to animals is a bad thing? I tend to act how I feel sometimes like a monkey and sometimes like a sheep. (Oh dear I just dehumanized myself ). I'd be concerned with a person who compares people to monsters or people who can't find good aspects from being compared to an animal.


That situation blows honestly see too many good people get screwed by some bull like that.

[JGirl]

Kazahel, on 02 December 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

Thankyou for understanding my post.

no problem!
i didn't understand why beany went on a rant about things that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. but yes, i did understand where you were coming from

[Simbi Laveau]

One might conversely ask,why do some people NOT conform to societal norms ?
Some people go to great lengths to not fit in,or are just truely different ,and it sometimes gets them branded as a crack pot .......
I mean god forbid your spiritual beliefs include demons .....
Or you like medieval weapons and and samurai swords,but if your a girl HEAVEN FORBID ,you're a weirdo .....or mental ,as designated by humans who are conformists,but think they aren't,because they go to the movies alone.
I go to the movie alone,90% of the time,because no one wants to see Malaysian martial arts movies .
Does this make us alike in our nonconformity ....
?!?!?

Edited by Simbi Laveau, 02 December 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[Beany]

I actually raised my children to be non-conformists. One of the first things they learned was to question authority, to think their own way through an issue, to educate themselves about the issue, and to reach their own conclusions, and if necessary, to act according to their own integrity, not what was expected of them. At the same time, I also taught them to respect others, to look beneath the surface, to put themselves in the other person's shoes to understand them better. My kids don't fit the typical mold in their ways of thinking or seeing the world, but they do hold down jobs, raise their kids, are kind & compassionate, and in every way appear to be one of the "sheep." Maybe they could be considered "stealth non-conformist."  And I don't consider myself to be a conformist, and I'm guessing most of the posters here feel the same way about themselves.

[Paracelse]

Most people like the status quo of being like everyone else without realizing that status quo is also a mean of control.  It's easier to control a group of "behave alike" than to control a group of different people.  Thus religion, politics, mores and other patterns are in place.

[JGirl]

Beany, on 02 December 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

I actually raised my children to be non-conformists. One of the first things they learned was to question authority, to think their own way through an issue, to educate themselves about the issue, and to reach their own conclusions, and if necessary, to act according to their own integrity, not what was expected of them. At the same time, I also taught them to respect others, to look beneath the surface, to put themselves in the other person's shoes to understand them better. My kids don't fit the typical mold in their ways of thinking or seeing the world, but they do hold down jobs, raise their kids, are kind & compassionate, and in every way appear to be one of the "sheep." Maybe they could be considered "stealth non-conformist."  And I don't consider myself to be a conformist, and I'm guessing most of the posters here feel the same way about themselves.

what you have posted here tells me they are not sheep. a nonconformist is the opposite of a sheep.

[Three]

re: The reason people conform is simple: once an individual understands, then accepts the collective as * a viable train of thought, despite [its] constituent of allusion i.e: deniability through logic, yet secretive ache for a divinity-esque perspective>?,  then said individual is without fault as far as an actual result when applied to that particular situation.

It allows for us to rebel against the very thing that connects us to the absurd, while maintaining our superego in regards to a specific focus of *whatever.

Also, I've been drinking; cover my ass, yeah?

[ouija ouija]

Three, on 02 December 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

re: The reason people conform is simple: once an individual understands, then accepts the collective as * a viable train of thought, despite [its] constituent of allusion i.e: deniability through logic, yet secretive ache for a divinity-esque perspective>?,  then said individual is without fault as far as an actual result when applied to that particular situation.

It allows for us to rebel against the very thing that connects us to the absurd, while maintaining our superego in regards to a specific focus of *whatever.

Also, I've been drinking; cover my ass, yeah?

You need to come back later when we'll be able to understand you ....... but thanks for sharing anyway
(I am unashamedly following you around the forum now because you are so funny!)