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More Americans Killed by Domestic Gunfire


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#16    CrimsonKing

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:07 AM

"There are 3 kinds of lies:lies,damned lies and statistics" Mark Twain

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#17    Uncle Sam

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:09 AM

Relying on a single statistics isn't showing the whole story, thus it is used to further one's agenda by creating a fear of those looking at it. If you show the whole story, average death compared to other situations and environments, you would come up with a completely different outlook. So basically just basing it off deaths doesn't even do the whole story justice, it just create unnecessary fear in those that don't research or understand.

How many of those deaths are by cops?
How many of those deaths are by people defending themselves?
How many of those deaths are accidental deaths?
How many of those deaths are gang related?
How many of those deaths are homicides?
How many of those deaths are murder?

I could keep going on and on asking the hard questions, but you will find majority of those deaths are by cops, gang related, and people defending themselves.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 08 February 2013 - 05:12 AM.

A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. - Albert Einstein

#18    CrimsonKing

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:14 AM

View PostUncle Sam, on 08 February 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Relying on a single statistics isn't showing the whole story, thus it is used to further one's agenda by creating a fear of those looking at it. If you show the whole story, average death compared to other situations and environments, you would come up with a completely different outlook. So basically just basing it off deaths doesn't even do the whole story justice, it just create unnecessary fear in those that don't research or understand.

How many of those deaths are by cops?
How many of those deaths are by people defending themselves?
How many of those deaths are accidental deaths?
How many of those deaths are gang related?
How many of those deaths are homicides?
How many of those deaths are murder?

I could keep going on and on asking the hard questions, but you will find majority of those deaths are by cops, gang related, and people defending themselves.

I want to see a stat of how many people a year die from old age and disease,we need to get to banning those 2 aswell im sure its a fairly large number

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#19    Jinxdom

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

How about locations and showing economies in the area that had the increase with gun related deaths?
How about law and punishment increases?
How about the job market?

There is a whole crap load of things that affect not just crime but gun related deaths.


#20    Uncle Sam

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:30 AM

View PostJinxdom, on 08 February 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

How about locations and showing economies in the area that had the increase with gun related deaths?
How about law and punishment increases?
How about the job market?

There is a whole crap load of things that affect not just crime but gun related deaths.

Exactly... we will never understand why people kill each other, but we will be able to defend ourselves with firearms.

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#21    Wickian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:07 AM

I'm pretty sure car accidents kill and injure far, far more people every year than guns.  In 2009 alone, 93 people were killed on average every day from automobiles.  Back in the 60's it was twice that number.


#22    freetoroam

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostUncle Sam, on 08 February 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:



How many of those deaths are by cops?
How many of those deaths are by people defending themselves?
How many of those deaths are accidental deaths?
How many of those deaths are gang related?
How many of those deaths are homicides?
How many of those deaths are murder?


I am NOT against people in the US having guns because I think you have reached a point where you do need them, but my question is:
To all those HOWS, how many would have been avoided if there were no guns?

There will always be the odd criminal which has one, but I reckon the "how many" would be a lot lower all round if guns were not part of the usual household items.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#23    Yamato

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:40 AM

View Postfreetoroam, on 08 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

I am NOT against people in the US having guns because I think you have reached a point where you do need them, but my question is:
To all those HOWS, how many would have been avoided if there were no guns?

There will always be the odd criminal which has one, but I reckon the "how many" would be a lot lower all round if guns were not part of the usual household items.
You reckon that it's the usual household items that make those figures a lot higher?  Surely it's not the criminals or the police making it a lot higher, it's just the usual households, right.   And you're not suggesting that only the odd criminal would have a gun and thus the 2nd Amendment must therefore be abolished in a land with no guns, otherwise why would you bring it up?

But the bigger question is, how have we "reached a point where we need guns"?   So all that history and the 2nd Amendment was unnecessary until now?   You don't think we needed guns in 1775?   In 1861?   What is it about now that's made us "reach that point"?

How many people would float away if there was no gravity?  That's the dreamland question I'd like answered.

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#24    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:18 AM

this is idiotic. the us is a  giant social experiment. we have the most diverse populace in the  world. There are well over 300 million people here from all walks of life and  every continent on earth minus one. we have brought the micro chip, the  internet, the  automobile, and the atomic bomb and power ( for good or ill). an  ten dozen other things. The US ENDS GENOCIDE, gives million and billions to many causes.....and  struggles with its own internal conflicts. if you knew real  statistic  you would ban automobiles. :(

Edited by Seeker79, 08 February 2013 - 08:20 AM.

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#25    Render

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:53 AM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 08 February 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

The same can be said of doctor/hospital mistakes . Actually its millions higher than gun deaths,but no one bans bad doctors ,bad drugs ,or a pathetic medical system.
I wonder why ......

http://www.dailypaul...als-kill-195000

:rolleyes:

Because trying to cure someone with medicine is something different then trying to kill someone with a gun.

Man, you really have to turn every conversation into your limited worldview huh?

"im simbi, i only know things about my limited life experience as a paramedic so im gonna turn every conversation into that so i appear super smart ... and then in my next post im gonna throw around my credentials because that proves that i am all knowing."


#26    freetoroam

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:44 AM

View PostYamato, on 08 February 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

You reckon that it's the usual household items that make those figures a lot higher?  Surely it's not the criminals or the police making it a lot higher, it's just the usual households, right.   And you're not suggesting that only the odd criminal would have a gun and thus the 2nd Amendment must therefore be abolished in a land with no guns, otherwise why would you bring it up?

But the bigger question is, how have we "reached a point where we need guns"?   So all that history and the 2nd Amendment was unnecessary until now?   You don't think we needed guns in 1775?   In 1861?   What is it about now that's made us "reach that point"?

How many people would float away if there was no gravity?  That's the dreamland question I'd like answered.
When i say you have reached a point, it is not something which happened over night!
The question has been asked as to  why people have guns and the answers have been because they need them to protect themselves...yes there are also the hunters too, but that is a separate issue.
My main point was if it were in America like it is here in the UK where we do not have guns and neither do our bobbies, how would that affect those stats?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#27    Rafterman

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:53 PM

View Postchopmo, on 08 February 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

jeebus that was a big spike in 1981-1998 compared to before and after it's doubled. But within thinking wasn't that the last chapter of the major race wars in america?

What "race war" in America?  I must have missed that one.

The spike in the 80s was due to the crack epidemic.

Let me also point out that the "gun deaths" also include justifiable and legal shootings and people shot by law enforcement.  Also, I'm of the opinion that suicides (more than half of annual firearms deaths) should be taken out and considered in another category.

So basically Shields took a bunch of unrelated numbers and tried to make a comparison for a big media gotcha.  And nowhere does he or any of the anti-gun types EVER talk about the times guns are used to SAVE LIVES each and every year - some studies point to upwards of 2 million incidents annually.

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#28    freetoroam

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

Advert on here in the Uk about a programme on the American gun culture. So far they have only shown black people speaking.
What I can not understand is why focus on the blacks when the children killed where mainly white in Sandy Hook.
Is this going to be another help the black children or are ALL gun crime victims included? will have to wait and watch the programme.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#29    Michelle

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:38 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 08 February 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Advert on here in the Uk about a programme on the American gun culture. So far they have only shown black people speaking.
What I can not understand is why focus on the blacks when the children killed where mainly white in Sandy Hook.
Is this going to be another help the black children or are ALL gun crime victims included? will have to wait and watch the programme.

It sounds like they may be focusing on the real problem...black on black gun crime. School shootings are few and far between, but many black teens are killed every day with barely a mention in the news.


#30    Rafterman

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 08 February 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Advert on here in the Uk about a programme on the American gun culture. So far they have only shown black people speaking.
What I can not understand is why focus on the blacks when the children killed where mainly white in Sandy Hook.
Is this going to be another help the black children or are ALL gun crime victims included? will have to wait and watch the programme.

Well as much as the media and the antis would want you to think otherwise, Sandy Hook was an anomaly.  And the dirty little secret that many will not even mention for obvious reasons is that the crime problem in the US is primarily an inner city black and Hispanic phenomenon.  There is a socio-economic component that touches all races, but the bulk is made up of black-on-black crime.  Very few will say this, but one only has to look at the numbers to see it.

Now I don't have numbers to back this up, but I've heard for years from various sources that if you remove the black-on-black and gang crime from US statistics, our crime rates per capita are on par with that of European countries.

And again, I'll harp on my favorite point - yes, a few thousand guns are used to kill people annually in the US.  But there are also 300 MILLION guns in private hands in the United States.  Do the math.  299.998 million guns do nothing except put food on the table, destroy little clay discs, punch holes in paper, and bring joy to their owners.

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