Should alcohol be considered in mitigation?

[Stixxman]

RCMP in Nunavut charged a 37-year-old man from Kimmirut on Wednesday in the shooting death of a local Mountie.

In a release issued midday Wednesday, RCMP said Pingoatuk (Ping) Kolola has been charged with first-degree murder in the death late Monday night of Const. Douglas Scott.

Scott, 20, was found dead by a fellow officer around 11:45 p.m. ET Monday in Kimmirut. He had been responding to a report of impaired driving in the hamlet of about 400, located 120 kilometres south of Iqaluit on Baffin Island.

Kolola has been in custody in Iqaluit since early Tuesday morning, when he surrendered himself to police without incident following a 3½-hour standoff at a Kimmirut residence.

The investigation is ongoing, police said. They will give more updates at a news conference scheduled for 3:30

Recently where I live there have been two violent shootings of RCMP(cops) members. I have lived here for my whole adult life and can tell everyone now how this will play out. In these communities there is a no alcohol rule, meaning if you bring booze into the community you could go to jail, for a while. The most recent murder was started with a call into the RCMP about a possible drunk driver. So right away we know alcohol will be sighted as a 'factor'. I can only surmise that the idiot who did this was a tad on the slow side(you can only leave or go to Kimmirut by air at this time a year, any other way is too dangerous) after he did what he did he had to know there was no chance he would get away with it. But I digress. Whats really important is how a defense lawyer for this walking turd will spin it. He will say the defendant comes from a depressed economic background(join the club), that he has a lifetime of substance abuse(nobody crammed the bottle under his nose, his choice) and that he was not in his full control of his mental facilities. Does anyone else feel sick about the world when a persons personal choice and actions can be mitigated in defense like this?

Edited November 7, 2007 by Stixxman

[War-Junkie]

when your drunk you still know right from wrong. some people just dont care

[Stixxman]

yeah but where I live its used everyday to excuse some pretty terrible behavior.

[glorybebe]

yeah but where I live its used everyday to excuse some pretty terrible behavior.

Actually with most people, drinking just gives them the nerve to do things they wouldn't when they were sober. It exaggerates their tendencies and the repercussions will not be taken into account. In no way should they be let off for doing something when they are drunk, IMO.

[InHuman]

No.

You chose to drink, and at the same time you chose to face the consequences.

[1.618]

No. the vast majority of people who drink choose to do so. An old saying regarding the results of drink is "it's your own bloody fault".

[goalienan]

Awww, the affects of alcohol, not so nice...I have since people drink so much that they go into their meloncoly mood...Start crying, talk about how it should have been...They there are those who go into the aggressive mode....mouthy, obnoxious...they can fight the world with two fists and a bottle of beer in each hand...And the worse are those who don't know when to stop, get in their car, DUI, and take out 4 people on the road...These are the idiots that get no slack when in court...DUI is right up there in our State, getting stopped while drinking, going to court and being shown no mercy by the Judge...The sad thing is that even if their license is taken away, they still drive....Sometimes I think it's a "no win" situation...

[Shalott]

Alcohol helps people lose their inhibitions (unless they're like me and just fall asleep). No one forces it down their throats. They make a concious choice whilst sober, and as such should be prepared to face the consequences of that choice.

[Mabon]

Hello Stixxman.

I voted yes and here is the reason. Should it keep a person like the guy in the article from being charged with murder? In my honest opinion no. He should be charged with it.

The only part being drunk at the time the crime was committed should play is during the sentencing phase.

Alcoholics would tell you they don't have a choice but to drink which different than a person who ties them on for fun or is a serial drunk (goes beyond the weekend warrior party animal), one is a chemical condition the other a character flaw.

People react differently to alcohol because their bodies chemistry is different. Some do drink and if over indulge it can run the gambit from happy, sloppy, falling down or angry drunk. And after a point of consumption a person can have black outs and not remember what they've done.

So this is the reason why I answered yes.

Edited to add a response to Nataliek's post. Sure when a person is sober no one forces it down their throat but some people have a dependency problem with alcohol or drugs. Also don't forget too that a person who is an inexperienced drinker can't always judge the way that their body is going to react to it or depending on their mood may not care or recognize it. You can drink one or two drinks of the same type and be fine the third drink can be the one where you feel it. Especially if you are sitting down drinking and then stand up. You don't alway know how far into your cups you are, sadly sometime, until it's too late.

Regards,

Mabon.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Mabon

[Stixxman]

that is just so wrong mabon. One- dependency on alcohol is a myth. Your body does not send you signals that you need this substance to 'survive'. Whatever dependancy the occurs is a product of the mind which means that it is a weak mind that is the problem not the nature of the substance. Calling it a desease sometimes and choice other times is malarky, just one more crutch for a stupid drunk to stand on. A drunk is a drunk is a drunk, believe me I know. There are five guys right now that I used to go to school with who are a block from where I work and hammered right now. YOu know why? Because they can, period.

two-ignorance is no excuse for the law and it should be no excuse in this instance. People know about alcohol, at all ages, although some may have a flawed understanding of what the effects are im positive all know alcohol definitely doesn't make you act 'normal' thats for sure. I had a couple beers at holloweeen and came home from the party and my four year old daughter sais I was acting funny.

[1.618]

Hello Stixxman.

I voted yes and here is the reason. Should it keep a person like the guy in the article from being charged with murder? In my honest opinion no. He should be charged with it.

The only part being drunk at the time the crime was committed should play is during the sentencing phase.

Alcoholics would tell you they don't have a choice but to drink which different than a person who ties them on for fun or is a serial drunk (goes beyond the weekend warrior party animal), one is a chemical condition the other a character flaw.

People react differently to alcohol because their bodies chemistry is different. Some do drink and if over indulge it can run the gambit from happy, sloppy, falling down or angry drunk. And after a point of consumption a person can have black outs and not remember what they've done.

So this is the reason why I answered yes.

Edited to add a response to Nataliek's post. Sure when a person is sober no one forces it down their throat but some people have a dependency problem with alcohol or drugs. Also don't forget too that a person who is an inexperienced drinker can't always judge the way that their body is going to react to it or depending on their mood may not care or recognize it. You can drink one or two drinks of the same type and be fine the third drink can be the one where you feel it. Especially if you are sitting down drinking and then stand up. You don't alway know how far into your cups you are, sadly sometime, until it's too late.

Regards,

Mabon.

Regarding dependancy. People choose whether or not to have the first drink/spliff/fix. Being excused from accountability becuse of alcoholism or drug addiction is a joke.

[Stixxman]

ditto 1.618

[glorybebe]

Regarding dependancy. People choose whether or not to have the first drink/spliff/fix. Being excused from accountability becuse of alcoholism or drug addiction is a joke.

I agree. And Stixx I also agreew ith your posting. I had a drinking problem when I was younger and working in the bar. I never drove, but walked home all by myself at 3 in the morning totally wasted. How easy would it have been for someone to jump me? That woke me up when I had that thought. I was endangering myself. No one else, it was me. It was not a disease, it was stupidity. Now, I don't drink.

[The Silver Thong]

I think it's absalutly disgusting that alcohol can be used as a defence, but seeing that alcoholism is concidered a "desease". The "drunk" defence will stand. Sad I know.

[Stixxman]

thats what bugs me I HAVE A DESEASE, its called asthma, and its an ACTUAL desease not some made up one for lawyers to get people out of trouble. Or maybe they could do this, if it is a desease then treat it like you would any desease that was dangerous to others. Put them in isolation lock down so they can't spread the "desease" right?

[glorybebe]

thats what bugs me I HAVE A DESEASE, its called asthma, and its an ACTUAL desease not some made up one for lawyers to get people out of trouble. Or maybe they could do this, if it is a desease then treat it like you would any desease that was dangerous to others. Put them in isolation lock down so they can't spread the "desease" right?

I have asthma also, and yes, it is a lung disease. Drinking is an addiction. There is a total difference there. An addiction you do to yourself, you make that choice with every drink you have and don't consider going and getting help to stop the ADDICTION. No way should this be used to defend your actions.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Legalize Marijuana, make Alcohol illegal

Edited November 8, 2007 by Avinash_Tyagi

[1.618]

I have asthma also, and yes, it is a lung disease. Drinking is an addiction. There is a total difference there. An addiction you do to yourself, you make that choice with every drink you have and don't consider going and getting help to stop the ADDICTION. No way should this be used to defend your actions.

Strange but true stixx and glory. I suffered from really bad asthma until i started smoking.

[Stixxman]

I have heard of that.

[The Silver Thong]

Strange but true stixx and glory. I suffered from really bad asthma until i started smoking.

Wow thats a new one for me, but hey if it works it works.

and as far as Stixx mentioned that would be a good idea to lock them up and have them do a total detox with some rehab.

[glorybebe]

Strange but true stixx and glory. I suffered from really bad asthma until i started smoking.

My dad was a heavy smoker and smoked in the car all the time. If we opened the windows in winter he would complain about the cold. So, three out of four of us have asthma, and my dad feels so guilty aobut this. When I moved out of home, I craved cigarettes, so I started smoking. I finally quit for good when I got pregnant. I was not going to endanger my baby. For a while my asthma was pretty bad, now, as long as I stay away from allergens, I am not that bad with it. Smoking does such harm to a persons body, I would rather be on inhalors than smoke. One tip I will give anyone with asthma, if you are feeling congested, like a chest cold coming on, get soem tea tree oil and put it in a hot bath. Sit in there for a while and your breathing will improve.

[Mabon]

My dad was a heavy smoker and smoked in the car all the time. If we opened the windows in winter he would complain about the cold. So, three out of four of us have asthma, and my dad feels so guilty aobut this. When I moved out of home, I craved cigarettes, so I started smoking. I finally quit for good when I got pregnant. I was not going to endanger my baby. For a while my asthma was pretty bad, now, as long as I stay away from allergens, I am not that bad with it. Smoking does such harm to a persons body, I would rather be on inhalors than smoke. One tip I will give anyone with asthma, if you are feeling congested, like a chest cold coming on, get soem tea tree oil and put it in a hot bath. Sit in there for a while and your breathing will improve.

But Glory that's the point. Your own post makes it dramatically. You didn't smoke but was exposed to the nicotine in cigarettes therefore you craved them or rather the chemical in them. It has a calming effect. Can't think of the chemical in alcohol that people crave but it's the same thing, a dependency caused by a chemical. I'm not trying to advocate whether or not it should be called a disease, I am of mixed opinion about that. But a person reasoning capabilities are diminished under the effects of alcohol therefore they are not in their "right" frame of mind.

How hard was it for you to quit smoking? Giving them up for you health or in your case the health of your unborn child is a compelling reason to do so. I applaud you many people try and fail.

So many things are difficult to understand from the perspective health for those that are unhealthy be that mentally, physically, or dependency problems (which may fall under both). That is why I said and stand by my opinion that he should be charged with murder, but the mitigating factor still is was he drunk enough to be in his right mind.

Regards,

Mabon.

[Stixxman]

yikes, thats bad mabon

[Mabon]

I'm confused Stixxman? What's bad about my post?

Regards,

Mabon.

[Stixxman]

The logic.

A person picks up alcohol on their own, they pick up another on their own then they pick up another on their own, see a pattern here. There is no person who follows them around with beer at the ready. No goverment organization that requires them to imbibe alcohol. No community obligation that makes people drink booze. They choose it so they choose the consequences. Whats next on the excuse list pedophelia? Scientists have proven that it is an addiction as well, so when little susie is violated Im sure I'll see you here defending that right? I mean he can't help it he's addicted right?

No of course you wouldn't do that Mabon, but supporting any idea that a personal choice can be blamed on anyone but yourself opens the door for more of it. Whatever happened to 'i am an adult and will accept RESPONSIBILITY for my own actions" ?. Drinking is a personal choice BY EVERYBODY. This cop out mentality is why kids are so stunned these days.