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Lessons from the Failed War on Drugs


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#76    aztek

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

View PostOrcseeker, on 24 February 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

You can legalise weed properly or legalise weed improperly.



if there are right, an wrong ways doing it, I have no doubt politicians will pick the wrong one,

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#77    danielost

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

I said that was what I wanted not that we should do  it.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#78    pallidin

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:11 PM

Not to disrespect anyone's opinion here:

My 26 year-old daughter has contracted Hep-C from sharing needles during a meth bing. True story. And she likes to shoot-up any drug that can be.
Not all the time, thank God, but she confessed to me about it about a month ago.

I'm very much afraid of her future, but with her not being a minor anymore there's not a whole lot I can do.

I've taken my share of drugs over the years, but never shot-up myself. So I can't fully relate. But it does hurt me, as she's my daughter.

Edited by pallidin, 24 February 2013 - 06:14 PM.


#79    AsteroidX

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:16 PM

Quote

Not to disrespect anyone's opinion here:

My 26 year-old daughter has contracted Hep-C from sharing needles during a meth bing. True story. And she likes to shoot-up any drug that can be.
Not all them time, thank God, but she confessed to me about it about a month ago.

I'm very much afraid of her future, but with her not being a minor anymore there's not a whole lot I can do.

I've taken my share of drugs over the years, but never shot-up myself. So I can't fully relate. But it does hurt me, as she's my daughter.


My condolences. Those that use needles should know better. If it were allowed there be alot more outreach programs for this issue perhaps that would have helped. Many of them have to operate under threat of arrest trying to get clean needles to those that need them most !! In my community you can just go to the pharmacy and buy them which itleast leaves a viable option and no reason to ever share one.


#80    pallidin

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:56 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 24 February 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

My condolences. Those that use needles should know better. If it were allowed there be alot more outreach programs for this issue perhaps that would have helped. Many of them have to operate under threat of arrest trying to get clean needles to those that need them most !! In my community you can just go to the pharmacy and buy them which itleast leaves a viable option and no reason to ever share one.

Thanks. I've made my older brother aware of this(he's out of state), and we talked a lot about it.

The stupid thing is she told me that she was told to undergo interferon therapy to help knock-out the Hep C, and she refuses to do it, because I guess her mom(my ex) had the same thing and supposedly made my ex really sick for 2-months(according to my daughter, I don't know the facts)

My only thought was (OK, 2 months of hell, or die from Hep C)
I did not tell her that, but I am about ready to.

Sorry for the rant. It just upsets me.

Edited by pallidin, 24 February 2013 - 07:02 PM.


#81    AsteroidX

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:10 PM

No rant if its real life mate.

Interferon is a harsh drug. Ive heard it compared to going through chemotherapy and it doesnt cure you. Her information is correct but Ive known people that did go through the interferon treatments. Never really talked to them about it.

Theres other drugs on the horizon for Hep C as well. Might do some research on that and help her by providing helpful information/options for treatment.

We do refer to this as casualties of the war on drugs. Its sad and widespread in the needle using community and TBH it is more deadly then AIDS today. They could cure it if they wanted to but the drug companies have expensive Interferon and see no need to do the type of research needed to cure it. Or itleast do like what they did with AIDS which is make it such a low level that you essentially are cured. The research into HepC comes from much smaller programs usually funded by private.


#82    The Silver Thong

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostOrcseeker, on 24 February 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

You can legalise weed properly or legalise weed improperly.

Lets first look at legalising weed properly...

On large scale production, this stuff grows fast and can pump out huge amounts per hectare. You can tax it a little bit but also ensure quality and prices are better than street prices. Because late scale production is possible with high return, most of the cost would probably be in packaging. Through this method; the street market will quickly be squashed out.

It may further cut the usage of other hard drugs as most people are exposed to such through the underground drug culture that they may obtain their weed from.

The ability for residents to own up to one plant each for personal use would be the most ideal.

So, how would we go about this improperly?

Well through taxing it and setting prices higher than the street price as well as quality of product. This keeps up the demand for a cheaper and overall higher quality product. In turn, keeping the underground illegal trade going and the crime that goes with it.


The nation seems to have kept tobbaco under control as far as bootlegged smokes. I think the legalization of weed would be the same.  I`m not even sure if its legal to grow ones own tobacco. If it was legal then I guess 10 bucks a pack would drop.  I can make my own beer and wine but can`t grow tobbaco..  I will have to look into this as I would love to grow my own ciggs with out the governmentécompany adding all those chemicels.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#83    FLOMBIE

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

It would surprise me if growing tobacco wouldn't be legal.


#84    AsteroidX

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:15 PM

You can grow your own tobacco, they even sell heirloom seeds.

Edited by AsteroidX, 24 February 2013 - 08:15 PM.


#85    Babe Ruth

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:24 PM

View Postpallidin, on 24 February 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

Not to disrespect anyone's opinion here:

My 26 year-old daughter has contracted Hep-C from sharing needles during a meth bing. True story. And she likes to shoot-up any drug that can be.
Not all the time, thank God, but she confessed to me about it about a month ago.

I'm very much afraid of her future, but with her not being a minor anymore there's not a whole lot I can do.

I've taken my share of drugs over the years, but never shot-up myself. So I can't fully relate. But it does hurt me, as she's my daughter.

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.  I hope you both make it through OK.

Imagine that if drugs were not criminal, your daughter could go to proper medical authorities and be treated the right way.  Because they are criminal, she cannot, because she is considered by the system to be a criminal.  As you know very well, she is NOT a criminal.

Sadly, because of our stupid drug policy and legal code, your daughter is treated as a criminal and considered to be one.  It's a counterproductive policy for any society.


#86    Jeremiah65

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

Prohibition has never stopped anything, it only feeds the blackmarket profits...the demand never goes away.

I don't have a lot to add that others have not already touched on.

Benefits of taxation and Regulation
reducing the numbers of Prisons for profit
Crime and violence associated with the production and trafficking...

People need to be responsible for their own choices and decisions.  Individual liberty and personal responsibility.  You reap the rewards or the ramifications of the choices you make...

I know...there will always be the perfect strawman argument that someone drunk or on drugs can hurt an innocent bystander...I won't even bother to argue with that.  An idiot texting can kill you...a crane cable can snap and drop a steel beam on your car...an meteorite can crash through your roof and kill you in your sleep.

The fascination with trying to make the world "harmless" and "safe" is totally ridiculous.  How about everyone try living with some freedom and dignity.  How about people stop crushing others with their paranoia and demands for safety... and most of all,  be grateful for today...tomorrow is promised to no one.  Not me...and not you either.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 24 February 2013 - 08:41 PM.

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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#87    Orcseeker

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 24 February 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:




The nation seems to have kept tobbaco under control as far as bootlegged smokes. I think the legalization of weed would be the same.  I`m not even sure if its legal to grow ones own tobacco. If it was legal then I guess 10 bucks a pack would drop.  I can make my own beer and wine but can`t grow tobbaco..  I will have to look into this as I would love to grow my own ciggs with out the governmentécompany adding all those chemicels.

The problem with this is the existing massive underground trade as well as the ease of a fast growing, very easy to grow crop.


#88    Gromdor

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:16 PM

There is also a health aspect to look at.  A former co-worker (now deceased), had a similar story to Pallidin's.  He was formerly a drug addict.  One day he wanted to shoot up some heroin, he found a needle on the floor of the bathroom in a nightclub and shot up with toilet water. Needless to say he developed Hep-C.  He was only speculating that this was how he got it, by the way, as this was the lowest he sunk.  A decade goes by, he cleans up.  But of course it is too late.

Looking at his case I could see a few points.
  If he had access to clean needles- he probably wouldn't have gotten hep-c.
  Street drugs are rarely "pure"- usually they are mixed with other things to increase its volume and make it more profitable.  Baby laxatives, rat poison,  anything could be in it.
  If he were in a legal, commercialized place that monitored drug users instead of a night club bathroom then someone would be there to curtail his more destructive habits. (Using toilet water)

I know, the guy was an idiot and why should we care!?
Because you paid for him.  His liver was so badly scarred and his kidneys were failing so he needed the occasional dialysis and he was on a waiting list for a transplant.  Because he was so sick all the time, he didn't work enough for insurance to kick in.


#89    shrooma

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:42 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 24 February 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:




Many of them have to operate under threat of arrest trying to get clean needles to those that need them most !!
.
in the UK, pharmacies run needle exchange schemes, where the user brings their used needles in for disposal, and is given clean ones in exchange. although condemned by some, mainly those with no experience of drugs whatsoever, these programmes have significantly reduced the amount of infection passed between users who inject.

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#90    shrooma

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:45 PM

Drugs-
just say know.

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