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US DEbt Limit Raised


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#16    Jinxdom

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:41 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 05 February 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Only the very dumb will give you anything for gold because once the economy crashes gold is also worthless. They will rather take a dozen of eggs instead of an ounce of gold.

Not true, Gold has a use and a value that can be trusted. That's the key to having an object based currency. If you no longer trust the person holding it the money is now worthless and that government cannot buy anything. That's why they froze the gold then got rid of the standard. We could make the government stop spending by making our money worthless then backing up somebody we can trust to manage that money. Now we can't stop and now our government won't stop being irresponsible. Coincidence I think not.


#17    acidhead

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:43 AM

You shall know them by their deeds

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#18    Tiggs

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:08 AM

View Postacidhead, on 06 February 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

No.  That is incorrect.

A medium of exchange would still be in the best interest of any individual engaging in a post crash market to avoid the inconveniences of a pure barter system.

Unless you happen to have 8,200,350,000 gold coins tucked under your mattress - which is the amount of US coins minted in 2011 (let alone bills) - then I expect there's a decent chance that Americans may stick with US currency for that.

Given that they generally have some to start with, and all.

Edited by Tiggs, 06 February 2013 - 07:11 AM.


#19    CrimsonKing

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:09 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 05 February 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Only the very dumb will give you anything for gold because once the economy crashes gold is also worthless. They will rather take a dozen of eggs instead of an ounce of gold.

I have to agree with Q here and im talking absolute collapse,the one that since tieing the world together will have an impact on all and everything.Food,water,and yes even lead will be worth more than gold to most.Only the ones who still have money will be worrying about gold the vast majority will care less.I am glad i have taken time out of my life to learn to grow food,fish,hunt and take care of myself no matter the situation.Honestly though those are things i just enjoy doing,but when survival is needed and necessary i will be ok to the best of my ability.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#20    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:11 AM

The worlds' economies are not going to collapse, and anyone who basis their decisions on such a scenario is only going to lose money.


#21    CrimsonKing

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:14 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 February 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

The worlds' economies are not going to collapse, and anyone who basis their decisions on such a scenario is only going to lose money.

Not saying they are going to frank,with the world all tied together it is a realistic possibilty at some point in time.Hopefully and i do not think in ours though.I wont lose money i am one of the only people i know who owes nothing to no one,except my taxes haha

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#22    Jinxdom

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:17 AM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 06 February 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

I have to agree with Q here and im talking absolute collapse,the one that since tieing the world together will have an impact on all and everything.Food,water,and yes even lead will be worth more than gold to most.Only the ones who still have money will be worrying about gold the vast majority will care less.I am glad i have taken time out of my life to learn to grow food,fish,hunt and take care of myself no matter the situation.Honestly though those are things i just enjoy doing,but when survival is needed and necessary i will be ok to the best of my ability.

That is why gold is one of the best standards. Last thing we need is greedy men hording food. They know how to make gold profitable. Let them. In that skill we all would benefit. They would have to come to us for food, and for the things we create. Which is how we build trust. You can't hate a person for being good at his job, just the ones who didn't earn that spot.

Edited by Jinxdom, 06 February 2013 - 07:18 AM.


#23    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:18 AM

We had the economy collapse and the central banks stepped in and stopped it.

I have to wonder what sort of scenario could happen where they couldn't do the same thing again.

I also have to wonder what exactly such a collapse would mean -- a 1930s style depression?  If so the world would recover, probably after a good deal of civil unrest but civilization would persist.


#24    AsteroidX

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:18 AM

Quote

The worlds' economies are not going to collapse, and anyone who basis their decisions on such a scenario is only going to lose money.

If your life is not ruled by money you no longer care about the worlds economy except the chaos it would cause to those that were not prepared and the impact those people will have on those of us that saw it coming. I can separate the 2 possibilities as my life is not ruled by money and as long as my garden grows and my beehive survives I am in a good place to stay alive and not have my lifestyle changed by such an event.


#25    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:19 AM

Gold is fine to have as a portion of one's portfolio, but remember that it is easy to confiscate.


#26    CrimsonKing

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:20 AM

View PostJinxdom, on 06 February 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

That is why gold is one of the best standards. Last thing we need is greedy men hording food. They know how to make gold profitable. Let them. In that skill we all would benefit. They would have to come to us for food, and for the things we create. Which is how we build trust.

Very much agreed in one way jinx you got me a bit ahead of the curb on that one lol,i honestly wouldnt give them a damn thing i would let them eat their gold haha

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#27    AsteroidX

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:22 AM

Quote

We had the economy collapse and the central banks stepped in and stopped it.

In the USA the holder of the Worlds accepted currency it is propped up by artificial deflation and is nothing more then a ponzi scheme being perpetrated on the greater part of the world. We do not have the gold anymore to back up our currency.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/gold.htm


#28    Zaphod222

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:25 AM

View PostJinxdom, on 06 February 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Not true, Gold has a use and a value that can be trusted. That's the key to having an object based currency. If you no longer trust the person holding it the money is now worthless and that government cannot buy anything. That's why they froze the gold then got rid of the standard. We could make the government stop spending by making our money worthless then backing up somebody we can trust to manage that money. Now we can't stop and now our government won't stop being irresponsible. Coincidence I think not.

Well, actually you are both right. It depends on the depth of the crash. Gold can not be printed of course, so the government can not devalue gold the way it can devalue fiat money. At the same time, gold can not be eaten, so if you are imagining a total economic breakdown, gold also is of little value. In that case, you´d want to stock food. However, if you expect a total cataclysmic breakdown of society, forget food to.... instead prepare a canoe, a tent, weapons, and survival gear.

So.... no guarantee anywhere.

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#29    CrimsonKing

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:25 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 February 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

We had the economy collapse and the central banks stepped in and stopped it.

I have to wonder what sort of scenario could happen where they couldn't do the same thing again.

I also have to wonder what exactly such a collapse would mean -- a 1930s style depression?  If so the world would recover, probably after a good deal of civil unrest but civilization would persist.

Yes but frank we are the great mixing pot,i know your county has foreigner's but we have to many different groups with different ideologies all are american but there ideas of what america should be are very different.Even a 30's style depression could have grave consequences.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#30    Jinxdom

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:27 AM

It's not about the gold itself. It's about the trust put behind it that matters. It's a material object that we can control. We put more trust in the currency then gold then the value of gold will decrease, If the money lender lost our trust, then we remove his gold then gold will be worth more again. Stability is an issue if we are all gonna be stuck in the red.

Ok issue was the wrong word more like hindrance.

Money isn't a bad thing, it is just a tool to trade value for value, If you don't want to get paid for anything you do, well that is projecting that you are basically worthless. (Which we as a society seem to be pushing as an ideal these days. the whole People are worthless)

Edited by Jinxdom, 06 February 2013 - 07:33 AM.





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