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"You didn't build that"


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#31    Tiggs

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostSpid3rCyd3, on 24 July 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

Mentality? Why should I, or anyone else be expected to fund foreign wars as well as provide funding for several other federally backed business ventures that have gone awry?

The US is the world's largest military superpower, with the world's largest economy.

In order to maintain both of those positions with all the advantages that come with them, then both wars and research are inevitable.


#32    F3SS

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostTiggs, on 24 July 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

It's the kind of argument that has to be made when the opposite side of the fence have a "If I earn it, it's mine and anything the government takes in taxes is stealing" mentality.
You mistake the argument for fiscal responsibility and limited government for being anti government and zero taxes. I never said stealing, but I don't disagree completely. They take by force and spend at will. Why shouldn't we carry a grudge for the wasteful spending? More to the point though, don't tell me to gracious when they do something responsible with our money. They ought to. They have to. It's their friggin job and constitutional duty. They aren't a group of generous people who allow us our great country. We allow them their jobs, their affluent lives and tat comes with responsibilties to spend and construct infrastructure wisely. Yes, if it earn it, it's mine. That's the definition of earn. Obama didn't build my business. Yours is the mentality of working for the government and being lucky to keep anything at all. That may be true elsewhere in the world but not the good old USofA.

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#33    WoIverine

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:56 PM

View PostTiggs, on 24 July 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

In order to maintain both of those positions with all the advantages that come with them, then both wars and research are inevitable.

At least, until the money runs out, or is rendered worthless. Hopefully that isn't right around the corner.

Edited by Spid3rCyd3, 24 July 2012 - 08:56 PM.


#34    Tiggs

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:22 PM

View PostIs it for real, on 24 July 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

You mistake the argument for fiscal responsibility and limited government for being anti government and zero taxes. I never said stealing, but I don't disagree completely. They take by force and spend at will. Why shouldn't we carry a grudge for the wasteful spending? More to the point though, don't tell me to gracious when they do something responsible with our money. They ought to. They have to. It's their friggin job and constitutional duty. They aren't a group of generous people who allow us our great country. We allow them their jobs, their affluent lives and tat comes with responsibilties to spend and construct infrastructure wisely. Yes, if it earn it, it's mine. That's the definition of earn. Obama didn't build my business.

There's a reason that startups aren't big in Somalia. You either have the ability to recognize that, or you don't.


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Yours is the mentality of working for the government and being lucky to keep anything at all. That may be true elsewhere in the world but not the good old USofA.

It's the mentality of anyone who doesn't take what they have for granted.


#35    F3SS

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:32 PM

I don't have what I take for granted. That's and I'll conceived assumption the left has when someone doesn't praise the government for what they've done. Why should we? The government didn't pay for anything. We did. All the government does is manage the country. They don't own it.
I understand why success is possible and rampant in the USA. However, I don't credit the any government except the founding one for the greatness of our country. All succeeding governments from then on are just doing their jobs by asking sure certain things are available to the masses. Also, doing anything except what they're supposed to only impedes progress.

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#36    Tiggs

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:38 PM

View PostIs it for real, on 24 July 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

I understand why success is possible and rampant in the USA.

Then you should have absolutely no issue with what Obama said.


#37    F3SS

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:46 PM

You're impossible. I already stated my thoughts thoroughly. You know why I take issue. If not, re-read.

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#38    Tiggs

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:57 PM

View PostIs it for real, on 24 July 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

You're impossible. I already stated my thoughts thoroughly. You know why I take issue. If not, re-read.

No. I really don't.

How about you re-read this:

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”


and then you tell us which part of your Generic Anti-Government rant you think relates in any way whatsoever to anything Obama actually said.

Edited by Tiggs, 24 July 2012 - 09:58 PM.


#39    Michelle

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:13 PM

It kind of reminds me of the new trend in giving trophies to every child that participates in a sport. It belittles the hard work of the exceptional players and demeans the ones that just show up, because it is expected of them by their parents, but put in very little effort.

I believe in giving credit where credit is due. People that contribute to society should be applauded for not leaching off of it.


#40    F3SS

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:17 PM

Dude that whole speech is a condescending effort to demonize business and tell them they are freeloaders who need to pay more. And I addressed that "somebody" who created this unbelievable American system. That would be the founders. Also, I thanked them. Its not our current government. They mostly impede on our unbelievable system. I don't thank them. They work for me. I reward them with tax money and votes. I have tremendous gratitude and respect for those who've helped me along the way. Doesn't mean I can't take credit for achieving and sustaining what I've done and what I do.
Anyhow, whatever. You're a typical liberal who insists I see it your way know matter how many times I never insist you see things my why. I'm just speaking my mind. You want to tell my mind what to speak.

Btw, about my business. I built that.

Edited by Is it for real, 24 July 2012 - 10:17 PM.

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#41    DieChecker

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:37 PM

View PostTiggs, on 24 July 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

No. I really don't.

How about you re-read this:


“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”


and then you tell us which part of your Generic Anti-Government rant you think relates in any way whatsoever to anything Obama actually said.

Tiggs,
You don't think, "If you've got a business - you didn't build that." is not offensive? There are thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of small buisinesses nation wide that are nothing more then someone knitting stuff in their living room, or cutting grass around their town, or performing computer repairs. And you agree that without the government providing some kind of mystic aid, that those people could Never have started those buinesses? Because Obama did not stop at saying... "somebody along the line gave you some help.", he said, "you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.".

If you want to say the government helps the internet, or that the post office helps everyone, or that roads help everyone, or that the government sets food standards that keep people healthy so that they can run a business, then Sure, the gov Made that business happen. But, then if you go by that standard, then the gov makes Everything happen. Every single thing.

And did the Government really invent the Internet so business could sell stuff? Who believes that? From what I've read the government was involved in fostering the creation of an internet around 1983 to 1985, but that commercialization of the internet did not happen until the 1990s, specifically in 1995. Before that everyone dialed up other computers directly with modems. It was the age of Bulletin Boards. The World Wide Wed (WWW) was not invented till 1990 and not in widespread use till 1993.

Edited by DieChecker, 24 July 2012 - 10:48 PM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#42    Tiggs

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:41 PM

View PostIs it for real, on 24 July 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Dude that whole speech is a condescending effort to demonize business and tell them they are freeloaders who need to pay more.

Really? Which business tax rate do you believe that he's proposing to increase in that speech?


Quote

And I addressed that "somebody" who created this unbelievable American system. That would be the founders. Also, I thanked them. Its not our current government. They mostly impede on our unbelievable system. I don't thank them. They work for me. I reward them with tax money and votes. I have tremendous gratitude and respect for those who've helped me along the way. Doesn't mean I can't take credit for achieving and sustaining what I've done and what I do.

Perhaps you could tell us where in Obama's speech that it says that you have to do otherwise.


Quote

Anyhow, whatever. You're a typical liberal who insists I see it your way know matter how many times I never insist you see things my why. I'm just speaking my mind. You want to tell my mind what to speak.

So I don't mistake the argument for fiscal responsibility and limited government for being anti government and zero taxes?

Interesting.


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Btw, about my business. I built that.

I built mine, too. Big Whoop.


#43    Tiggs

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:43 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 24 July 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

You don't think, "If you've got a business - you didn't build that." is not offensive?

If I believed that the word "that" referred to the business - as opposed to all the stuff he'd mentioned earlier such as the roads and the bridges - then sure.

Otherwise - not so much.


#44    DieChecker

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:50 PM

View PostTiggs, on 24 July 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

If I believed that the word "that" referred to the business - as opposed to all the stuff he'd mentioned earlier such as the roads and the bridges - then sure.

Otherwise - not so much.
Interesting. I had not read it that way. :tu:

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#45    F3SS

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:55 PM

I don't know where else to go with this. You have me lost in liberal land where I must agree with you and Obama or else get out. I'll take the exit. It's pointless having an opinion there.

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