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Sitchin's Folly: Graffiti in the Pyramid


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#436    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostIrna, on 29 April 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

I think I understand what you're feeling...
Posted Image


#437    DieChecker

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:02 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 28 April 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Final Score: Apologists 0 – Fringies 9

SC
Presenting evidence and having it accepted as True are two different things.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#438    questionmark

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:13 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 29 April 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Presenting evidence and having it accepted as True are two different things.

Especially then when it takes five minutes to conclude that the evidence is constructed based on the existing reality...

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
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#439    Quaentum

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:33 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

SC: Can you present the primary source for the above statement? Can you present an edition of ‘The Corning Journal’ of that date that actually states the above?

Here is the actual edition of the ‘Watkins Express’ where Hunphries Brewer’s obituary was presented (as copied from the Wellsboro Herald) dated 16tth Jan, 1868:

Humphries Brewer Obituary

No Danube Bridge.

SC

Fallbrook Railway Company website   http://fallbrookrailway.com/news.shtml  Citing the Corning Journal

Quote

January 16, 1868 - The Wellsboro papers contain an obituary notice of the late Humphries Brewer, Superintendent of the Fall Brook mines. He was a native of England, and was in the fifty-first year of his age at his death. He came to this country twenty years ago, having been previously engaged as a civil engineer in constructing a bridge over the Danube ... by his judgement, Hon. John Magee was guided in the purchase of land in which the Fall Brook mines lie, and all that has been done to develop the extensive coal beds there, has been under his direction. Mr Magee once informed us that in every instance, explorations for coal had more than justified the statements of Mr. Brewer. His sagacity and judgement directed the enormously expansive operations, which have made the Fall Brook mines one of the best paying coal properties in the country. (Corning Journal)

You can also find references to it in the following:

History of Monona Count Iowa (1890)  http://books.google.... bridge&f=false

Journeys to the Mythical Past (Sitchin)  http://books.google.... bridge&f=false

Yes indeed a Danube bridge.

You are using a standard fringe tactic.  You are citing one reference written by someone who admits he doesn't know everything about Brewer's past and since it doesn't mention the bridge you assume that means he never worked on a bridge over the Danube.  At the same time you are dismissing multiple citations, including those from family members themselves, that include references to Brewer's work on the Danube bridge.

You mentioned earlier that it was ridiculous for the writer of the obituary to have not asked the family about details but when you see one or more of the family members mention the bridge and the obituary writer not mention it, then that's exactly what you have.  The writer of the obituary wrote from what he knew and evidently didn't confer with family members.

Edited by Quaentum, 30 April 2013 - 03:17 PM.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#440    Scott Creighton

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:58 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 30 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Fallbrook Railway Company website   http://fallbrookrailway.com/news.shtml  Citing the Corning Journal



Yes indeed a Danube bridge.

SC: You're a bit late to the party. Already been discussed. Suggest you read all the previous posts.

SC

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#441    Quaentum

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:18 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 30 April 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

SC: You're a bit late to the party. Already been discussed. Suggest you read all the previous posts.

SC
Edited my post to add more, suggest you reread it.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#442    mstower

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

SC: What a detection. We really should be calling you Sherlock.

You have an objection?  A refutation?  Why don’t you state it?

Just because you don’t know the family tree, doesn’t mean I don’t.

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

SC: “Far closer”? Can you quantify that precisely for us?

I’ve not noticed you doing this.  You want Bayesian or something?

The relevant points have been stated already.  Putting numbers on them would merely be a pseudo-mathematisation.

Rational people would give weight to a specific family member being identifiable.

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

And eh - don’t families, friends and work colleagues contribute to obituaries?

And eh?

Not always.  They’re usually written by journalists, using various sources.  You’re trying to short-circuit the evidential question by invoking procedural knowledge which may or may not apply.

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

Oh look – no mention by the family, friends or colleagues about design prizes for Danube Bridges.

Care to cite directly these statements of family, friends and colleagues?

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

Why do you think they all neglected to mention that major event in the obituary? Pray tell us, oh great Sherlock.

Oh, so the anonymous obituary is now a joint effort, is it?  Because you say so?

Where did you get this bizarre idea that an obituary is a comprehensive biography?

I recognise no obligation to explain the content of your fantasies.

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

SC: Well, I’d be very happy to see any other obituaries written for Humphries Brewer if you can source them?

Google not working, then?

Try thinking.

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

SC: And not a single peep in HB’s obituary. A rather glaring omission, I would say. The family must have been mortified at such a glaring oversight. And eh – exactly how close is “close to a practical certainty”? Care to quantify that more exactly for us? I, for one, would be ever so grateful.

I dare say the family may have been preoccupied with their grief.  Not that someone devoid of decency as you are would get this.

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

SC Twaddle-dee, and twaddle-dum.

See what I mean?

View PostScott Creighton, on 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

You have to do better than this.

Says the man who needed goading into looking beyond Sitchin.

M.

Edited by mstower, 30 April 2013 - 04:15 PM.


#443    mstower

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostScott Creighton, on 30 April 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

SC: You're a bit late to the party. Already been discussed. Suggest you read all the previous posts.

SC

Quaentum has taken the trouble to explain to you a point you’re still failing (for no good reason) to grasp.

M.


#444    questionmark

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:02 PM

View Postmstower, on 30 April 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Quaentum has taken the trouble to explain to you a point you’re still failing (for no good reason) to grasp.

M.

He has a good reason: His newest brain maxturbation dissolves into dust if you guys are right.

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#445    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:03 PM

The snake-oil seller is too blockheaded and full of his own self-righteousness and pomposity to listen to anything except his own voice. There was a smell of death about his posts since № 1. He is this, but does not yet realise Posted Image

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 30 April 2013 - 05:05 PM.


#446    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:07 AM

Again we go barking up the wrong tree, why discuss whether Humphrey Brewer build a bridge on the Danube? His orbituary may be right about certain facts and wrong about some.

It doesn't help us in anyway to prove that the Cartouche's in the GP were original and not forged by Vyse.


#447    mstower

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:00 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 02 May 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

Again we go barking up the wrong tree, why discuss whether Humphrey Brewer build a bridge on the Danube?

Because we’re discussing the reliability of the family tradition—a tradition which is being invoked as evidence on the forgery question.

M.


#448    mstower

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:21 AM

View PostQuaentum, on 30 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

You mentioned earlier that it was ridiculous for the writer of the obituary to have not asked the family about details but when you see one or more of the family members mention the bridge and the obituary writer not mention it, then that's exactly what you have.  The writer of the obituary wrote from what he knew and evidently didn't confer with family members.

When Humphries Brewer died (on Christmas Day, 1867), his family in the USA comprised, not just his wife and children, but also his younger brother Robert (born 1823) and his sister Jane (born 1826).  They surely would have known plenty about “the earlier parts of his life”—from personal experience and from what they’d been told.  (I know about events in my brother’s life which happened before I was born.)

If the obituarist had access to their input, why the disclaimer?

We may note some other omissions:

Nothing about his parents.

Nothing about his marriage.

Nothing about his children.

Setting aside the panegyric tone, it’s really quite a dry and impersonal sketch (Humphries Brewer the professional man and pillar of his community), short on precisely those details we’d expect family informants to emphasise.

M.


#449    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:26 AM

View Postmstower, on 02 May 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Because we’re discussing the reliability of the family tradition—a tradition which is being invoked as evidence on the forgery question.

M.
Mere testimony by a great great great grandchild will not be considered as evidence even if true. Sitchin talked about the letter sent to him by Allen confirming the fraud, if this was evidence enough then why are we debating it? In this search whatever the outcome is, the validity of the testimony will never change any mainstream views.Something more material is required. Yes if the debate is only about proving Sitchin wrong about his claims related to this issue then it makes sense otherwise it is futile.


#450    Windowpane

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:25 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 03 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Mere testimony by a great great great grandchild

In fact, Walter Allen was the great-grandson of Humphries Brewer.

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 03 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:



will not be considered as evidence even if true.


For the case to be watertight, there would need to be corroborative evidence of some sort.

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 03 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:



Sitchin talked about the letter sent to him by Allen confirming the fraud, if this was evidence enough then why are we debating it?


Because some people consider that Allen's notes about a family tradition are in fact evidence.  But they're only evidence of a tradition - not evidence of fact.  If there were letters from Humphries Brewer stating that he'd been witness to a fraud (although none have so far been produced), that might be of some help.  But, ideally, you would need other witness statements as well, not just one - especially given the existence of other forms of historical and graphic evidence contradicting the allegation of forgery.

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 03 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

In this search whatever the outcome is, the validity of the testimony will never change any mainstream views.Something more material is required. Yes if the debate is only about proving Sitchin wrong about his claims related to this issue then it makes sense otherwise it is futile.


The mainstream view is that the Great Pyramid is Khufu's tomb, in which teams of workers left quarry-marks that used 'Khufu' as part of the various team names.  If there is other evidence that proves something different, then fine.  But where is it?  Sitchin's theories about Nibiru and alien spaceships aren't even worthy of comment IMO.





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