BDV Posted June 29, 2006 #1 Share Posted June 29, 2006 To create evil one must be evil Speaks for itself, is God as spoken in the Old Testament Evil? if not then why create it ? I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaostrom Posted June 29, 2006 #2 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Interesting question... Mind contributing my "Unanswered questions on religion" thread? On topic, I don't believe in the god in the bible so I don't care if he's evil or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDV Posted June 29, 2006 Author #3 Share Posted June 29, 2006 (edited) Will do, if i could find it Interesting question... Mind contributing my "Unanswered questions on religion" thread? On topic, I don't believe in the god in the bible so I don't care if he's evil or not Edited June 29, 2006 by BDV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoszerg Posted June 30, 2006 #4 Share Posted June 30, 2006 To create evil one must be evil Speaks for itself, is God as spoken in the Old Testament Evil? if not then why create it ? i dont believe god was as nice as most people are led to believe. To me he seems abit of a tyrant and then he uses satan as a scapegoat. But i think we are born with our basic instincts and then are taught to be good and evil by our peers and others around us. I think that is why animals are around to try and teach us and remind us to stay on track to stay with our basic instincts instead of being taught whats right and whats wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaostrom Posted June 30, 2006 #5 Share Posted June 30, 2006 BDV, my thread is somewhere in this section. Try page 3. I've only started two in this section, so it shouldn't be hard to find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 30, 2006 #6 Share Posted June 30, 2006 i dont believe god was as nice as most people are led to believe. To me he seems abit of a tyrant and then he uses satan as a scapegoat. But i think we are born with our basic instincts and then are taught to be good and evil by our peers and others around us. I think that is why animals are around to try and teach us and remind us to stay on track to stay with our basic instincts instead of being taught whats right and whats wrong. So you believe that "oh, believe in God or go to hell" stuff? Actually, it's trying to say that his creation can either be Good or bad. For example: Men can be either evil or Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasa Posted June 30, 2006 #7 Share Posted June 30, 2006 God didn't create evil. He gave us Free Will. People CHOSE to be evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginary Friend Posted June 30, 2006 #8 Share Posted June 30, 2006 So by that logic, god lied when he was cited in Isaiah 45:7!? Further, there is no "Free Will", by the definition of what the 'god' in the bible, is. Omniscient, omnipotent, omni-genesis and omnipresent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 30, 2006 #9 Share Posted June 30, 2006 That includes seeing the future huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoszerg Posted June 30, 2006 #10 Share Posted June 30, 2006 That includes seeing the future huh? like i said we are just a bundle of emotions and instincts when we are born then just tempered taught and shaped into a drone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasa Posted June 30, 2006 #11 Share Posted June 30, 2006 So by that logic, god lied when he was cited in Isaiah 45:7!? Further, there is no "Free Will", by the definition of what the 'god' in the bible, is. Omniscient, omnipotent, omni-genesis and omnipresent. You're referring to one random person's interpretation of the Bible. God does not lie. People do. We all, including the Angels created before us, have free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoszerg Posted June 30, 2006 #12 Share Posted June 30, 2006 You're referring to one random person's interpretation of the Bible. God does not lie. People do. We all, including the Angels created before us, have free will. how do we know god does not lie? For all we know if god is real maybe god is the bad guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonic presence Posted June 30, 2006 #13 Share Posted June 30, 2006 lol yeah god is evil and satan is down in hell laughing at us cuz everyones a dumbass thinking hes bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginary Friend Posted June 30, 2006 #14 Share Posted June 30, 2006 You're referring to one random person's interpretation of the Bible. God does not lie. People do. We all, including the Angels created before us, have free will. As are you referring to one random interpretation of a bible when you refute Isaiah as well as any other scripture in the christian bible, wherein "god" claims "he" is the creator of the good and the evil. Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? Unfortunately, given the characteristics that make "god" what he is alleged to be in the bible, "free will" can not exist under the dominion of a god that knows all and affects damnation or salvation, upon those that willfully choose. Romans 9:11-22 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted June 30, 2006 #15 Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) The KJV mistranslated that Isaiah passage - I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things. - Isaiah 45:7 (ESV) Check up the Hebrew. The conotation is not of evil, but of disaster/calamity. The verse has a different meaning now, with that word, right. God has only indirectly created evil, imo. Being who He is determines what is "good". therefore, anything that goes against that nature is, by definition "evil". Living contrary to God's Laws is evil. To live according to them, is good. Look no further than than the state of the human heart if you really wish to find evil regards, PA Edited June 30, 2006 by Paranoid Android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasa Posted June 30, 2006 #16 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Look no further than than the state of the human heart if you really wish to find evil Excellent comment and totally true too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakonwick Posted June 30, 2006 #17 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well I will just say that a person can choose what they want to be! Whether you do evil things or good things it is your choice to do what YOU want to do in situations that happen in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desty Posted June 30, 2006 #18 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Without Light there is no shadow, But there can be Light without Shadow, Because Shadow is a by-product of Light. Light shines on the world, and there is a shadow. But in the end god will remove the earth. The elements will melt and the contents of heaven will burn up, then will be a new heaven and a new earth, purly desinged for good. The light becomes so bright and overwhelming from every direction, no longer is there a shadow, No longer is there a place to hide with your secret sins all things will be revealed, for there is nothing new under the sun. ...were the imagination of ourselves and heres tom with the weather (sorry couldn't resist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDV Posted June 30, 2006 Author #19 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Its always the human thats evil, nothing to do with our surroundings is it ? what about all this planets little extras which kill people every year? if this god was so hands on then, then why can't he be now, and stop so many people from unnecessary death and suffering? of course its all a test to test your blind faith in an entity that no one can prove or disprove of, the only evidence is a book that can be translated in so many differnt ways that it begins loosing meaning after Genesis 1:1 Rabbi Pinchas Peli, writing a few years before his death in the old Jerusalem Post, mentioned that there were over 900 halachically acceptable word translations to Genesis 1:1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandore Posted June 30, 2006 #20 Share Posted June 30, 2006 You're referring to one random person's interpretation of the Bible. God does not lie. People do. We all, including the Angels created before us, have free will. Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? The KJV mistranslated that Isaiah passage - I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things. - Isaiah 45:7 (ESV) Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 45:7 (Judaica Press Complete Tanach) Who forms light and creates darkness, Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Who makes all these. chabad.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermetic Hermit Posted June 30, 2006 #21 Share Posted June 30, 2006 "That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes-a day when strong men will cry bitterly. It is a day when the LORD's anger will be poured out. It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness." Zephaniah 1:15,16 "If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there." Psalms 139:8 "Am I a God who is only in one place?" asks the LORD. "Do they think I cannot see what they are doing? Can anyone hide from me? Am I not everywhere in all the heavens and earth?" asks the LORD." Jeremiah 23:23,24 How can there be seperation from a God that claims to be everywhere? Or are these more examples of mistranslations? You know the mistranslations that can be discarded because they don't agree with your beliefs, though everything else is the truth, as so long as it does agree with your beliefs. Creating your own outlook on god is a great thing but when you pretend that you can be a Christian and change the God described in the Bible is hypocritical. "Everything in the Bible is true except for what I disagree with", is what I am hearing. Either read your Bible or stick to the cartoons on Sunday morning, grow up or suck your thumb. Do your Bibles look something like this? You might realize that the God in the OT is very different to the God in the NT, if you remove the blacked out sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted June 30, 2006 #22 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Do your Bibles look something like this? You might realize that the God in the OT is very different to the God in the NT, if you remove the blacked out sections. I can't speak for other Christians, but my Bible certainly doesn't look like that. If people didn't use a cut'n'paste approach to the Bible so often, they might actually see that the God in the OT and the NT are in fact the exact same one. Too often though, people use these sections (what you refer to as the "blacked out" sections) as standalone verses, ignoring everything else around it. Just a thought Regards, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian McMalley Posted June 30, 2006 #23 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Too often though, people use these sections (what you refer to as the "blacked out" sections) as standalone verses, ignoring everything else around it. Isn't that what people have been doing this entire thread? IMO, humans are basically walking potential. They contain the potential to be/do anything within their phsyical and mental limits. This being said everyone contains the potential to be good or evil, or completely nuetral for that matter. And I said all that without quoting any religious text too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermetic Hermit Posted June 30, 2006 #24 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Yet no explanation of the verses given, how strange. They are either ignored altogether or called misinterpretations but rarely an explanation to the verses are given. Do these verses say or not that the God of the OT is everything, the beginning and the end, light and dark, peace and war? Is the Day of the Lord one of "darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness"? If you don't like what God "says" in the Bible, find a new "Bible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodnt Posted June 30, 2006 #25 Share Posted June 30, 2006 To create evil one must be evil Speaks for itself, is God as spoken in the Old Testament Evil? if not then why create it ? Only speaks for the few that made it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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