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The Apocalypse Explained

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#76    Hasina

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostBluefinger, on 18 January 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:



If it discourages you to discuss it, then don't discuss it.  I am not discouraged though.  Jor-el and Crickey are actually addressing my points and responding with questions that actually evaluate the merit of each of my interpretations.

That is how truth is uncovered:  By systematically and critically analyzing the entire text, including its exegesis.

That way, you can accurately challenge previously accepted determinations, such as the dating of the book of Revelation.
Discouraged? Nah, just my interpretation of the book wouldn't jive all that well, since I find the vast majority of the Bible to just be fairly tales teaching good moral lessons.

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#77    Crikey

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:54 PM

View Postlaver, on 18 January 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

No, the relationship between Jesus and Mary of Magdala was that she was his companion and confidant that is well recorded and that she was his messenger. The alignments of the churches of Revelation are a FACT... check it out if you wish.. it is true and should not now be ignored by any sensible person who seeks the truth which is what Christ told us to do...

Regarding the Jesus/MaryM thing, you'd better start backing up what you say with bible quotes or we'll think you're making it up..;)
As for Revelation, Jesus ALREADY told us what to do-
"Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

So what does Revelation need to tell us on top of that?
Which saves, Jesus or Revelation?


#78    Crikey

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

View PostHasina, on 18 January 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

There's just so many interpretations when it comes to Revelations that if you say that what you're reading is the 'right' way to read it, well, it probably ain't cause someone's claiming the same thing with the same data but with different results.

Yes, everybody's got their own interpretation and theories about Rev, so one persons ideas are no better or worse than anybody elses..:)


#79    laver

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:20 AM

View PostHasina, on 18 January 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

That's what I was trying to point out with my question! There's just so many interpretations when it comes to Revelations that if you say that what you're reading is the 'right' way to read it, well, it probably ain't cause someone's claiming the same thing with the same data but with different results.

That is the beauty of geometry and a little maths. If something works out geometrically that is a fact. You might say it is a coincidence but that depends on how many coincidences occur before you say -'Hey, this has got to be a design'. Chapter 1 verse 20 tells us that there is a 'secret meaning' in the 7 churches chosen by Jesus which are called lamps and lamps show the way. The book of Revelations tells us that the messages in it come from Christ and as the 'secret meaning' is clearly the alignment of these churches on the landscape, an alignment which then goes to Magdala on the Sea of Galilee, it is quite reasonable to say that Jesus knew about the alignments. From the bible records Jesus often spoke in parables, metaphor and riddles so we have to try to establish the meaning he intended and the geometry is just another puzzle to be solved in the future. It has now been solved by the work of many researchers who have looked at the layout and geometry of ancient sacred sites which lead us to the churches of Revelation and other locations. Surely Christ would not want us to ignore it just because we do not yet understand how this geometry was set out long ago before the time of Jesus?


#80    Zaphod222

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:41 AM

View PostBluefinger, on 12 January 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

Hello UM,

So I've done a great deal of studying the book of Revelation for about 20 years now

Is "study" of a book of fiction not an contradiction in terms?
What does matter what it says in these phantasy stories either way. Just enjoy them for what they are... entertainment.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#81    Zaphod222

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:43 AM

View PostHasina, on 18 January 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Discouraged? Nah, just my interpretation of the book wouldn't jive all that well, since I find the vast majority of the Bible to just be fairly tales teaching good moral lessons.

The New Testament stories, arguably. The Old Testament describers a pretty brutal and nasty god, quite similar to the mohammetan one.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#82    laver

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:50 AM

View PostCrikey, on 18 January 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Yes, everybody's got their own interpretation and theories about Rev, so one persons ideas are no better or worse than anybody elses.. :)

That is simply not true. All interpretations are not equal particularly when some are backed up by facts. The 'secret meaning' in Chapter1 verse20 of Revelations, which seems to be the key to Revelations, concerns the geometric alignments in the 7 churches named by Jesus. These churches we are told are lamps and lamps show the way. Christ must have known this when these locations were selected.


#83    laver

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:53 AM

View PostCrikey, on 18 January 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Regarding the Jesus/MaryM thing, you'd better start backing up what you say with bible quotes or we'll think you're making it up.. ;)
As for Revelation, Jesus ALREADY told us what to do-
"Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

So what does Revelation need to tell us on top of that?
Which saves, Jesus or Revelation?

The Gnostic gospels and the bible show that Jesus had a special relationship with Mary of Magdala as companion, confidant and messenger. I would not presume to judge whether that was also a relationship as 'girlfriend' or 'wife' although there is I understand some evidence now being assessed which may shed more light on the
matter.

Jesus when talking to his disciples on his special mountain by the Sea of Galilee, to which the disciples were directed by Mary of Magdala and was probably Mount Arbel next to the town of Magdala, mentions the 'End of Time' and this location is on the Great Circle bearing which identifies 5 of the 7 churches Christ chose to mention at the start of the book of Revelations. So the concept of an 'End of Time' is implied by the teachings of Jesus and this is geometrically linked to the book of Revelations ( Matthew 28 )


#84    Bluefinger

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

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It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#85    Bluefinger

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:53 PM

where's jor-el and crikey?

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#86    laver

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:40 PM

View PostBluefinger, on 19 January 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

where's jor-el and crikey?

]

They may be checking out the 7 churches of Revelation that Jesus told us to investigate to find the 'secret meaning'. 'Seek and ye shall find.....'


#87    Bluefinger

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:51 PM

View Postlaver, on 19 January 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:



]

They may be checking out the 7 churches of Revelation that Jesus told us to investigate to find the 'secret meaning'. 'Seek and ye shall find.....'

I doubt it.  Jesus is not the author of confusion to those that love God.

And it contradicts the Gospel.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#88    Crikey

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:55 PM

View PostBluefinger, on 19 January 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

where's jor-el and crikey?

No offence but I got bored..:)
I don't particularly care what Rev means, it's not important to me because it serves no purpose.
As I said before, which saves, Jesus or Revelation?


#89    Bluefinger

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:34 PM

View PostCrikey, on 19 January 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:



No offence but I got bored..:)
I don't particularly care what Rev means, it's not important to me because it serves no purpose.
As I said before, which saves, Jesus or Revelation?

Evidently Jesus.  Its been the same message for about 2,000 years.

Its been good.  Thanks for the discussion.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#90    laver

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:39 PM

View PostBluefinger, on 19 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

I doubt it.  Jesus is not the author of confusion to those that love God.

And it contradicts the Gospel.

Jesus spoke, according to the bible, in parables, metaphor and riddles with a fair bit of numerology too. His messages were often hidden and this is clearly the case with the 7 churches of Revelation which is an invitation to find out what the 'secret meaning' is.

Far from contradicting the Gospels, the Gospels confirm that the importance of the 7 churches is their geometric layout in a much larger design of ancient landscape geometry as you may probably soon realise.






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