77 replies to this topic

[Arpee]

gentai, on 17 August 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

i agree with harpee except in a way im finding hard to describe. everything is the mind energy. brain is receiver / supercomputer / translator. thoughts are the brains translations of all stimuli simultaneously. so everything we experience is an aspect of mind. so its quite possible that mind might have more than just the aspect of observation.

How did you get from, "thoughts are the brains translations of all stimuli simultaneously" to "so its quite possible that mind might have more than just the aspect of observation"?

The Mind "Observes" and The Physical "Takes Action".  

gentai, on 17 August 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

ii guess i disagree with harpee in respect to memory. mind contains memory.

Memory is thought about the past. If we already know that The Brain is thinking (neuron communication) and that the mind is observing, then the mind cannot contain memory (thoughts of past).

gentai, on 17 August 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

you could say memory is an aspect of duality but, then, what would be the duality of memory? past and present? but what about future?

Why would "past" and "present" be duality? Present is happening NOW. You can observe it. Past and Future you have to actually "think" about with the brain, so yes, "Past" and "Future" would be duality, not "Now".

gentai, on 17 August 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

if the brain is not the only one observing then it is also not the only one with memory.

In the beginning you already said that you believe that everything is mind energy. If this is true, then the brain must be a part of mind energy, too, which it is. The mind is just aware of the "functioning" of the brain (the thoughts), but it is the actual brain which think thoughts about the past which we call memory. The mind is aware of now, and aware of the thoughts of the past and future being thought NOW - The mind is always present observing now - but it can give the illusion of observing the past or future if those thoughts are being thought by the brain NOW.

gentai, on 17 August 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

the only observer that might fit your description is a "god" seperate from mind. which is entirely possible.

I already explained "who" or "what" the observer is in the original post, and there is no such thing as "separation" as I already explained in the original post of this thread.

[Arpee]

StarMountainKid, on 17 August 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

I'm still wondering where consciousness lies in the OP's hypothesis or conjecture.

When the brain is damaged or when the brain malfunctions, consciousness is also affected.

What do you mean by "consciousness" do you mean "awareness"? If so, that is only the function of the mind (be aware/ observe / be conscious of... same thing different words).

The Brain is The Do-er (thinking - causes action in the body), The Mind is The Be-er (Observer, Be conscious of).

The Brain is only the EXPRESSION of Consciousness/Observation (reacting to this or that - or expressing through senses) but it is The Mind that is the actual consciousness.

lightly, on 17 August 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

I like it Arpee.   ... i wonder.. If consciousness/mind is non physical.   Brain is physical of course.  .. sort of the equivalent of the relationship in energy and matter  between  . . virtual  and  physical.

I already addressed my thoughts on this in the first post of this thread.

lightly, on 17 August 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

How did the universe become physical?  if the universal mind did nothing but observe?  

It came into existence on its own, just like "virtual particles" can just pop into existence out of no where (space - or the so called void). I know people will not like that response, but I am only speaking truth.

The mind was always awareness. It is/was even aware when these particles pop into existence from out of no where. It is aware of what is happening now - but if people think THOUGHTS (so-called memory) or past or future, then it is aware of those thoughts happening NOW.

[Kazoo]

Arpee, on 17 August 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

If you read back a few posts, I explain why purpose can not exist in the mind (observation) only in the brain (the thinker).

I'm not asking from the prospective of the mind. I know the mind can't do anything. I'm asking YOU.


New question: So this thing lives outside of time. Not needing time. What does this need? Does it need anything. I understand that it does not want anything. As its incapable of understanding the concept.  But is their any situation in space in time or out of it in which the "mind" cannot continue to exist. The mind itself is the universe or something along those lines. What about outside the universe. Outside the mind? Do all universes share the same mind? Can a black hole suck in mind? Does it have any sort of physical existence? Is the universe its physical existence?

Edited by Kazoo, 17 August 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[gentai]

hmmmm.... perhaps aspect wasnt the right word. everything we experience is a reflection of mind. so its possible that mind is more than just an eyeball and might contain other aspects comparable to what we experience in body. obsevation is only one aspect of mind which the eyeballs are the reflection of. so there could more aspects of mind being reflected here than just seeing. it would seem that your theory contains life after death but with no memory of the life lived. i guess without evidence to show i cant use my logic at all but i have a dead friend who remembers me, her family, and who she was. my theory of everything would have to include a mind with memory based on what ive learned about death but until someone can find a way to scientifically prove it to everyone in a peer reviewed journal then my point is stuck in limbo.

[Arpee]

Kazoo, on 17 August 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

I'm not asking from the prospective of the mind. I know the mind can't do anything. I'm asking YOU.


New question: So this thing lives outside of time. Not needing time. What does this need? Does it need anything. I understand that it does not want anything. As its incapable of understanding the concept.  But is their any situation in space in time or out of it in which the "mind" cannot continue to exist.

Since it is "outside of time", so to speak, it does did not, does not, and therefore will not need anything.

Kazoo, on 17 August 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

The mind itself is the universe or something along those lines. What about outside the universe. Outside the mind? Do all universes share the same mind? Can a black hole suck in mind? Does it have any sort of physical existence? Is the universe its physical existence?

Nothing is mind, but mind itself. All things are "on top of" this mind (so to speak). In other words, all of existence is an EXTENSION of mind.  It just observes all of what is (the whole of all reality... now...now... and now...), however, this so called "you" is produced by the brain (via thought, opinion, belief-systems, thoughts of "I am this" or "I am that" and so forth).

[Arpee]

gentai, on 17 August 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

it would seem that your theory contains life after death but with no memory of the life lived.

Yes and No. Why would a "spirit" have no memory of the life lived? First off, what is a spirit? Well, we already know that thoughts are energy (light), and we already know that "spirits" can have memory and even have desires and think. Why is a spirit a "light-body" though? This is because this spirit is the accumulation of "thoughts" and "desires" that a physical body had when it was alive. Even spirit is not mind, mind is aware of spirit (this light body energy with thought and desire).

gentai, on 17 August 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

i guess without evidence to show i cant use my logic at all but i have a dead friend who remembers me, her family, and who she was.

I don't see any reason why you would lie. I believe you.

But yes, this is the  personality/spirit (thoughts/desires/intentions/etc.) - in other words an energy "body" (so to speak) not mind - awareness itself - although mind IS aware OF this personality/spirit, which this spirit/personality is choosing to call "me" just as we are doing the same with these physical bodies.

Our spirit (energy body / accumulations of thoughts and intentions) is choosing to call this body "me", and when we die, it'll be "MY" spirit, but that is not even mind - mind is behind that - mind is just observation/awareness.


Here is a better way to explain this....


The "Physical Body (brain included)" is a "Computer"...

The "Spirit" is electricity, which is running through this "Computer" (powering it and being a part of it),

When the "Computer" (Body) dies, The Electricity (Spirit) still exists,

But the Mind is the space which is making up this "energy" and it is "infinite" and "all around". So yes, when a person die, you can still see their "energy" if you can tap into it, and they can still move around and still "power things" ('still living' in a sense), but that is not mind, mind is even behind that.

Edited by Arpee, 18 August 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[StarMountainKid]

me said:

When the brain is damaged or when the brain malfunctions, consciousness (/awareness) is also affected.

If mind is separate from the brain, how do you explain this?

[Arpee]

StarMountainKid, I already answered your question, it is the second post of page 3 (this page).


Here is what I said:

Quote

The Brain is The Do-er (thinking - causes action in the body), The Mind is The Be-er (Observer, Be conscious of).

The Brain is only the EXPRESSION of Consciousness/Observation (reacting to this or that - or expressing through senses) but it is The Mind that is the actual consciousness.

In other words, "The Awareness" is not affected AT ALL by the physical body (brain), only the EXPRESSION of it THROUGH the physical body is affected.

Edited by Arpee, 18 August 2012 - 02:25 AM.

[gentai]

this is oh so much fun. arpee, do you believe in reincarnation?

[Rlyeh]

Arpee, on 18 August 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

StarMountainKid, I already answered your question, it is the second post of page 3 (this page).


Here is what I said:



In other words, "The Awareness" is not affected AT ALL by the physical body (brain), only the EXPRESSION of it THROUGH the physical body is affected.

In other words redundant, in order to do anything the brain must be aware.

[Arpee]

Rlyeh, on 18 August 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

In other words redundant, in order to do anything the brain must be aware.

Correct. The Brain is The "Do-er", The Mind is The "See-er".

gentai, on 18 August 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

this is oh so much fun. arpee, do you believe in reincarnation?

Yes, but to further understand my view on this, look to a post I made earlier on this page comparing the body to a Computer and the spirit to Electricity.


It is not "Your" electricity (spirit) or "My" electricity (spirit), it is just Electricity (Spirit) running through things.

The Electronic (The Body), The Electricity (The Spirit), and The Mind (The Infinite and Aware Space).

I think that is the perfect metaphor.

[Rlyeh]

Arpee, on 18 August 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

Correct. The Brain is The "Do-er", The Mind is The "See-er".

Actually that would make the Brain the "See-er" and "Do-er", while the mind is just the "See-er". Completely pointless.

[Arpee]

Rlyeh, on 18 August 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

Actually that would make the Brain the "See-er" and "Do-er", while the mind is just the "See-er". Completely pointless.

There is only one "See-er" doing all of the "seeing"; the source of your "seeing" and my "seeing" is the same source - the mind. There is no "my" mind or "your" mind, there is just one mind that is seeing and this physical reality is what is being seen.

A great way to look at it, is like this: Mind is Space, and all things contain space (if you look at the quantum level). Mind is mind, none of us "own" it.

Edited by Arpee, 18 August 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[Rlyeh]

Arpee, on 18 August 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

There is only one "See-er" doing all of the "seeing"; the source of your "seeing" and my "seeing" is the same source - the mind. There is no "my" mind or "your" mind, there is just one mind that is seeing and this physical reality is what is being seen.

A great way to look at it, is like this: Mind is Space, and all things contain space (if you look at the quantum level). Mind is mind, none of us "own" it.

I've asked you repeatedly how you know this mind exists when the brain also does the "seeing".

[Arpee]

Rlyeh, on 18 August 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

I've asked you repeatedly how you know this mind exists when the brain also does the "seeing".

The brain does not "observe", you do not "observe", there is only one observer and physical reality is what is being "seen".

You can think of the "observer" as space, and all physical reality (and spirit if you believe in that) is just an extension of this.

This physical reality is giving the illusion of individual observers, just as this physical reality is giving the illusion of there being "lack of space" even though everything is made up of atoms flowing around and there is always space.

Edited by Arpee, 18 August 2012 - 06:22 AM.