471 replies to this topic

[quillius]

just to add (request) regarding the HP and metalic appearance...does anyone have any case studies of this? witness statements, photos etc

and also any reasoning as to why this (these) solid appearing objects are classed as part of the HP and possibly an unknown plasma?...I am curious as to the link apart from location... :0

[Chrlzs]

Given the 2012 Chilean case was brought up (the one with SEVEN, that's 7, videos) analysed by Bermudez and his team and supported (or at least for while) by Leslie Kean, may I ask where is the promised analysis?  Where are the other videos, or even stills from them?  Triangulation is pretty easy, given a decent video or seven... so why haven't they been released for public perusal?

(ooh, ooh, ask me, I think I know that one..!!!)


I call BUGS, and I'm happy to go into lengthy detail on exactly why... but that detail could be either dismissed or heavily augmented AS SOON AS THESE 7 (that's SEVEN, VII...) ALLEGEDLY CORROBORATING VIDEOS ACTUALLY TURN UP...  So, where are the others?

Perhaps I'll email Kean (*again*) to see what has transpired...  

This one is another lovely example of the absolute worst of ufology - and some here wonder why no credibility is offered?

May I suggest readers interested in this case read this UM thread thoroughly...  Perhaps someone who likes social networking a lot more than me can visit Leslie Kean's facebook page and see what has transpired since then...  I'm sure if anything had happened, she would be flogging it on the Huff. Post, where she also gets good advertising for her book...  Leslie, why not pop on over to Unexplained Mysteries and let's discuss..?

Paging Leslie Kean, paging...

[quillius]

Chrlzs, on 07 December 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Given the 2012 Chilean case was brought up (the one with SEVEN, that's 7, videos) analysed by Bermudez and his team and supported (or at least for while) by Leslie Kean, may I ask where is the promised analysis?  Where are the other videos, or even stills from them?  Triangulation is pretty easy, given a decent video or seven... so why haven't they been released for public perusal?

(ooh, ooh, ask me, I think I know that one..!!!)


I call BUGS, and I'm happy to go into lengthy detail on exactly why... but that detail could be either dismissed or heavily augmented AS SOON AS THESE 7 (that's SEVEN, VII...) ALLEGEDLY CORROBORATING VIDEOS ACTUALLY TURN UP...  So, where are the others?

Perhaps I'll email Kean (*again*) to see what has transpired...  

This one is another lovely example of the absolute worst of ufology - and some here wonder why no credibility is offered?

May I suggest readers interested in this case read this UM thread thoroughly...  Perhaps someone who likes social networking a lot more than me can visit Leslie Kean's facebook page and see what has transpired since then...  I'm sure if anything had happened, she would be flogging it on the Huff. Post, where she also gets good advertising for her book...  Leslie, why not pop on over to Unexplained Mysteries and let's discuss..?

Paging Leslie Kean, paging...

Hey Chrlzs, when you do email her can you also ask her to pop along to UM, I am sure she will enjoy herself here ......

[Chrlzs]

quillius, on 07 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Hey Chrlzs, when you do email her can you also ask her to pop along to UM, I am sure she will enjoy herself here ......

I already tried that back in July but got no reply.  Maybe she has seen my work..

But I'm sure MacG has the required kudos to get a reply, and surely if he's interested in these cases (after all, he raised it..), he should contact her...

I'd be most interested to hear what has happened, as I think this is a great example of *exactly* how and why these 'cases' are so worthless, and also how inept yet pretentious these pseudo-investigative bodies are (with their lame golden handshake retirement appointments like Bermudez, what should one expect..).

I wonder if the CEFAA gets funding from Maussan?  Geez, I'm cynical, aren't I..  but in this case, with dam good reason.

I'd love to be proven wrong.  And now I'm holding my breath..
  
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[quillius]

Chrlzs, on 07 December 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

I already tried that back in July but got no reply.  Maybe she has seen my work..

But I'm sure MacG has the required kudos to get a reply, and surely if he's interested in these cases (after all, he raised it..), he should contact her...

I'd be most interested to hear what has happened, as I think this is a great example of *exactly* how and why these 'cases' are so worthless, and also how inept yet pretentious these pseudo-investigative bodies are (with their lame golden handshake retirement appointments like Bermudez, what should one expect..).

I wonder if the CEFAA gets funding from Maussan?  Geez, I'm cynical, aren't I..  but in this case, with dam good reason.

I'd love to be proven wrong.  And now I'm holding my breath..
  

lol....about as cynical as I am paranoid

[bmk1245]

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

And here is a link to the Haines report of the 2010 UFO pictures from Chile, which once again was not in the 1950s and 1960s.  He stated that these UFOs shown in the 12 pictures were surrounded by plasmas.

They were also metallic objects, flying 18 times faster than the jets, but mircom will never tell you about cases lie these either.  What will he tell you about?  He talks a lot but says very little.

http://www.narcap.or...NAL_summary.pdf
[...]

Good ol' Haines... Takes jpegs (with artifacts already), then blows-up parts (I'd give 100% using nonlinear interpolations), bastardizes images with various filters, and then concludes plasma!
He really should stick to the subject he probably (but not necessarily) knows better, i.e. psychology.

[mcrom901]

taniwha, on 07 December 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

He has me convinced the whole universe is strewn with plasma but I believe that LIFE is just as universal.

http://www.plasma-un.../99.999%_plasma

[mcrom901]

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

Richard Haines has indeed written about plasmas and "earth lights", but don't expect someone like microm to tell you the truth about what he REALLY said.  He doesn't dare, because it shoots his ideas all to hell.

what a load of nonsense... first off, don't lie... http://www.unexplain...45#entry4568225 secondly, what you have mentioned below doesn't refute any of the 'published' data....

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

Piezo-electric Effects. Persinger has postulated in many papers that intense E-M field generated by the stress of tectonic plate movements in the Earth's crust can produce plasmoid luminous balls of varying color, size, and brief duration (typically under 15-20 seconds) (1976, 1979). Klass (1968) has proposed a somewhat less precise but similar hypothesis for the UFO phenomena involving ball lightning. Both gentlemen have failed to explain how such a phenomenon can travel high into the atmosphere (as is reported by many airplane pilots) or how the contained plasma can sustain itself for periods of time as long as those reported here (conservatively up to 20 minutes).

read up on the literature....

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

And, as Rodeghier (1988) has stated, ". . . there is no a priori reason to expect anything but a random distribution of piezo-electric events by hour of the day. in direct contrast with the bimodal distribution shown in Figure 1. Until such explanations are forthcoming and are supported by field observations and laboratory research the piezo-electric effect should be placed near the bottom of any list of credible explanations of the present high altitude E-M events.

what? does that even make any sense? if mark rodeghier is interested in refuting persinger's work... i would suggest he send his letters to the publishers / the journals, where persinger's work is...  which data is he trying to refute? cause the only place that ^^ sentence can be found is haines' 'paper'... anyways, persinger not only hypothesizes, but follows through.... http://www.amsciepub...1993.77.3f.1059

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

Plasma Sheath Interference. A plasma is a particular region within a gas discharge containing very nearly equal number of positive and negative ions. Apparently, its neutral charge affords it some stability of character over time. It's form is thought to result from magnetic fields which establish a reasonably defined interface with surrounding air. It is well known that radio transmission can be disrupted or blocked altogether by atmospheric ionization. This occurred during the re-entry of manned spacecraft into the Earth's atmosphere as the plasma sheath surrounding the space capsule blocked radio communication.

http://authors.libra...ltech.edu/5341/

so, the alien spacecrafts are surrounded by plasma?

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

The charged particles of a natural plasma move at random and would be expected to produce an apparently random interference pattern known as white noise or static in radio and television transmissions. Klass (1968; pg. 95) has suggested that most UFO phenomena are explained by natural atmospheric plasmas without ever considering the possibility that such plasmas are not a natural phenomenon at all but a by-product of the UFO phenomenon itself! Of course a contained ball of plasma could not reach beneath the hood of a car without being dissipated by the metal hood of an automobile or the engine cowling of an airplane, or could it?

why consider real data when you can interject speculations without the need to prove anything?

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

There are numerous verified accounts of ball lightning contacting a commercial aircraft in flight and somehow finding its way inside the passenger and crew compartment(s), sometimes to exit silently at some point or other times to explode with a loud clap. How the plasma enters the fully enclosed volume has never been explained but it does!

the alien craft can penetrate into third dimensional objects because they're made of 4d plasma...

[mcrom901]

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

Haines and many others have reported and investigated UFOs that also have plasma sheaths, but mircom will never tell you about that either.  For example:

UAP, as many of you know, is the acronym preferred by National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena in an effort to delouse the UFO stigma. Just this year, NARCAP founder Richard Haines, a retired NASA scientist, completed an extensive UAP analysis that didn’t rate any press whatsoever. And unlike the Turner-Loeb scenario, there was nothing hypothetical about it.

On Sept. 17, 2010, as five prop-job planes flew in wingtip formation some 3,500 feet above the Chilean capitol, something sublime and bizarre passed above them. No one saw it at the time, but the UAP turned up on a series of 12 photos taken over an 11-second span. In his 39-page report, the cautious but exacting Haines discovered that while the UAP maintained its relative size throughout the sequence, it appeared to change shape, which was more or less a “vertically oriented spindle or Saturn shape.”

Haines, using wind data, was able to disqualify balloons from the suspect list. With an assist from “luminance stretching,” he detected a “halo” above and around the object. That effect, he stated, “may represent heat radiating (and rising) from the core of the UAP.”

The sequence left Haines stumped. Though the skies were clear and cloudless that day, his best guess was a “luminous contained plasma.” He also noted the somewhat geometric UAP nearly morphed into translucence in several frames. “If this is an accurate observation,” Haines wrote, “then further research is called for on physical mechanisms that can produce this type of periodic ‘transparency’ or ‘cloaking’ effect.”

What may be more remarkable than the UAP, however, is the source of the photos. They were recorded by an official Chilean Air Force photographer. The images worked their way up the military chain of command and were eventually forwarded to Haines via Chile’s Committee for the Study of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena, under a data-sharing agreement signed with the nonprofit NARCAP last year.

http://www.google.co...ue5tLAJb-V6bECg

let folks decide for themselves....




"Within the “body” of the UAP imaged in Figure 2a, on the other hand, one can see several regions of different hues and luminance."

[mcrom901]

TheMacGuffin, on 07 December 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

so, they stretch, go through planes, change form, disappear....

[Sweetpumper]

DONTEATUS, on 07 December 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

My UFO was doing at least 27,000 MPH then to a stationary pace with my aircraft,then back out of sight ,One thing for certain IT WAS NOT PLASMA NOR NATURAL ! Stuff like that ,if your lucky happens in your life time !

Too bad we can't show them to others, huh?

[TheMacGuffin]

quillius, on 07 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Hey Chrlzs, when you do email her can you also ask her to pop along to UM, I am sure she will enjoy herself here ......

I can see why shouldn't wouldn't respond to him, since he is not being accurate in what he says about this Chile case, or indeed many others.  All you have to do is look at all the things I just posted about it and you'll see what I mean.

[Chrlzs]

Quote

since he is not being accurate in what he says about this Chile case..
they all fill these threads up with lies, distortions and garbage..

MacGuffin, either state precisely what I was not accurate about and what lies I told, or withdraw that.




Here's the ORIGINAL LINK at the Huff. Post, where both LESLIE KEAN and 'Gen.' (term used advisedly) Bermudez and his crack CEFAA team make the assertion that 7 videos recorded the information.

I quote Leslie Kean from that page:

Quote

CEFAA officials collected seven videos of the El Bosque UFO taken from different vantage points..
These images come from one of seven videos taken of the UFO..
The UFO was captured on seven cameras..

I repeat, that's SEVEN videos and that claim was made by Leslie Kean and Gen. Bermudez.  MacGuffin, are you calling Leslie Kean and Bermudez LIARS?  Or have you simply not read ANYTHING about this case?

YOU, MacGuffin, raised the topic, so why are you now running like the wind?  Is there some reason you don't want to see the analysis and any follow up information?

I invite the readers to do their own research and work out for themselves who is deliberately spreading misinformation.

[TheMacGuffin]

*snip*

Kean said that CEFAA, the government agency which investigates strange air phenomena, found the object on seven separate pieces of video tape, which implies the object - whatever it is - is not an abberation on the video tape.

Ricardo Bermudez, CEFAA's director, told a UFO conference last month that the spots were caused by an object traveling at speeds in excess of 4,000 mph.
Kean picked out a few elements that make this sighting a little special, in particular that  the Government investigated the footage so thoroughly, and found examples of the object on seven pieces of film.


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http://www.google.co...vghnVXUVo4CuNbg

Edited by Saru, 08 December 2012 - 01:14 PM.
Removed personal attack

[TheMacGuffin]

Read this.  Don't just believe what people *snip* are posting on here about UFOs.  

http://www.google.co...2ObHeaZhDh4ATvA




Bermudez is the director of the Committee of Studies of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena (CEFAA), which is an arm of Chile’s version of the FAA. During their analysis, Bermudez says CEFFAA first went to skeptical astronomers. Despite their disbelief in UFOs, the astronomers estimated the speed of one of the objects racing across the screen during the filming of the F16s to be moving at 10,000 KM (6213 miles) per hour.
According to OpenMinds.tv:

Gen. Bermúdez showed the analysis done by the astronomers from CEFAA’s External Committee of Advisors, which established that the object was not a meteoroid, a comet, reentry of space junk, a bird or an airplane. Furthermore, the scientists’ report stated the UFO undertook “a risky maneuver in front of the Halcones from west to east” and that it did “a flight maneuver at low altitude and high speed.” The report also established that “the object shows light and shadow effects of metallic like reflections and shows ellipsoidal shape” and that “the land observers do not detect the object in spite that it passes over their heads, thereby it is not accompanied by a sound wave.”

While preparing for his talk behind stage, the General told me that he had actually been skeptical of UFOs, but that this case had finally convinced him that there was something mysterious to the phenomenon. He told the audience at the UFO Congress that he is convinced that it is very important that the study of UFOs continue. Furthermore, he believes that an agency should be established to investigate the issue on a global scale, preferably within the United Nations.

Edited by Saru, 08 December 2012 - 01:15 PM.
Removed namecalling