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Disappearance of anonymity on the internet


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#1    Render

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:08 AM

Following the latest suggestion of Youtube to only post comments with your real name, it seems that the big players are all pushing to destroy anoymity on the internet.

I come from a generation where posting anonymously was the obvious choice.
Since myspace and especially since facebook it seems that this is no longer the case.

I struggle with the thought that anonymity is being fought against on the internet.
On one side law enforcement urges us not to use real names for safety reasons. On the other hand big companies urge you to use your real name, with the risk of being banned from their service if you don't (which in itself sounds rather ridicolous to me, that they're portraying themselves as something official while it's just a service), for commercial reasons and so called anti-troll reasons. Even though it has been proven that using real names has no effect on trolling or name calling etc. (see: http://techcrunch.co...prove-comments/ ).


So what's everyone's take on this?


#2    Yes_Man

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:59 AM

It shows the trolls must be stopped


#3    questionmark

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:10 PM

What anonymity? Anybody who thinks that anything could be done on a medium whose root domain belongs to the DoD without being identified must take a reality check real quick. If some people got away with certain things it is not because it was unknown who did it but because it either was too petty, there were no laws against it or they are in a country unwilling to enforce those laws.

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#4    Junior Chubb

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:21 PM

For me this is a reflection of the idiocy of the average internet user. The internet is there for us to use, unfortunately it has been abused. Hate groups, bullying, rioting, trolling, paedophile sites etc are the excuses that people can use to monitor/control/censor the internet. Human nature is responsible for this situation, if everybody played nicely (sorry to sound like an idealist) there would be no ammunition to enforce these changes to the internet.

I am not saying that 'the powers that be' have not always wanted to remove internet anonymity, just we are playing into their hands and giving them the reasons they need to make change.

I think these changes are inevitable...

Edited by Junior Chubb, 02 August 2012 - 12:23 PM.

I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to show me where the hell Helen of Annoy has been for the past couple of months.

#5    Render

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:56 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 02 August 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

What anonymity? Anybody who thinks that anything could be done on a medium whose root domain belongs to the DoD without being identified must take a reality check real quick. If some people got away with certain things it is not because it was unknown who did it but because it either was too petty, there were no laws against it or they are in a country unwilling to enforce those laws.

well of course, on a higher scale no one is completely anonymous...but for your immediate contact on the internet you are
for example a random person who posts a video on youtube and some other random person comments on it .. they are anonymous for each other.


and that's the issue, why the need to delete that anonymity
would it really be better, or would the internet become a strange place and would ppl eventually create a new forum where they can be anonymous?


#6    Render

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:58 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 02 August 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

It shows the trolls must be stopped

View PostJunior Chubb, on 02 August 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

For me this is a reflection of the idiocy of the average internet user. The internet is there for us to use, unfortunately it has been abused. Hate groups, bullying, rioting, trolling, paedophile sites etc are the excuses that people can use to monitor/control/censor the internet. Human nature is responsible for this situation, if everybody played nicely (sorry to sound like an idealist) there would be no ammunition to enforce these changes to the internet.

I am not saying that 'the powers that be' have not always wanted to remove internet anonymity, just we are playing into their hands and giving them the reasons they need to make change.

I think these changes are inevitable...

stop trolling ... or should ppl just stop being so sensitive to what random ppl say who don't even know them?
they can't attack a person's character if they don't even know the person...if that person takes everything so personal that easily ...i mean , that's a big part of the "idiocy" too


you can't have your cake and eat it at two... those ppl crying murder because of some comments are the same who want internet neutrality and are against things like ACTA-SOPA etc
all this need to diminish anonymity could have far reaching consequences...are ppl just gonna do whatever some internet service tells them to?

Edited by Render, 02 August 2012 - 03:00 PM.


#7    spud the mackem

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:53 PM

I think that no one is anonymous anymore whether on the internet or not.Before I had a p.c (about 4 yrs ago) I used to get and average of 5 to 6 junk mail POSTAL  letters per week,now that I have a P.C its gone up to 10 to 15,per week,most of these are advertising letters, the rest from charities wanting you to donate,and some are reputable outfits like the Red Cross service, Lifeboats, Cancer Reseach etc...If I am supposedly anonymous, how do these people get my name and address ? Its not from the Electoral Roll as I have an X against allowing my name to be "bought", and in the phone book I am ex-directory.Now if you put your name into "search"  on your p.c. details appear giving your address , your wifes name etc. so now ANONYMITY no longer happens.Big Brother is here,alert and definitely Watching You...

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#8    Junior Chubb

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:59 PM

View PostRender, on 02 August 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

stop trolling ... or should ppl just stop being so sensitive to what random ppl say who don't even know them?
they can't attack a person's character if they don't even know the person...if that person takes everything so personal that easily ...i mean , that's a big part of the "idiocy" too


you can't have your cake and eat it at two... those ppl crying murder because of some comments are the same who want internet neutrality and are against things like ACTA-SOPA etc
all this need to diminish anonymity could have far reaching consequences...are ppl just gonna do whatever some internet service tells them to?

Not to sure what you are getting at here Render, trolling is not just name calling. If you use YouTube regularly you will see the racist element that flares up with some videos, its disgraceful and fuelled by anonymity, most of these people would not leave the comments they do if they had to use there real names. Its a similar situation to what gets uploaded, people would think twice about uploading offensive material if they had to use their real names. Twitter is also a minefield of race based comments and trending topics. Facebook is just not as blatant or direct as people tend too use their real names.

If you look at the London Riots of last year and how people used Social Media to organising looting, another reason fro people to remove anonymity from the web. There are numerous examples of Social Media being used to promote anti social activities and bullying that leads to physical violence.

I do not necessarily agree with the steps that people want to take to control the web and remove anonymity, but there is enough cause out there for them to do so and web users have nobody to blame but ourselves.

I see what you mean about the 'flamers' will be the ones who want to keep the web anonymous, I would be in favour of anonymity and I only troll occasionally. ;)
The same argument can be levelled at Identity cards, if you have do no wrong you have nothing to hide...

I have mentioned before that I think the web will split in two at some point in the future, regulated and unregulated. I really do think this is how things will go. then people will not have to do what  ISP's tell them. A bit like TV now, you can watch it legitimately or watch it illegally...

I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to show me where the hell Helen of Annoy has been for the past couple of months.

#9    Coffey

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:20 PM

As far as trolling, racism, hate and bullying etc. Then it isn't a bad thing. We need to filter the **** out of the system.

It's only when it starts filtering opinions and important informaiton out it becomes a breach of our freedom.

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#10    Charlie Prime

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostRender, on 02 August 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:


well of course, on a higher scale no one is completely anonymous...but for your immediate contact on the internet you are
for example a random person who posts a video on youtube and some other random person comments on it .. they are anonymous for each other.


and that's the issue, why the need to delete that anonymity
would it really be better, or would the internet become a strange place and would ppl eventually create a new forum where they can be anonymous?

In your original post you gave readers the courtesy of using capitalization.

I was going to participate in this thread, but in your next two posts you did not.

Weird.


#11    Junior Chubb

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:09 PM

View PostCharlie Prime, on 02 August 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

I was going to participate in this thread, but in your next two posts you did not.

Looks like you just did :tu:

I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to show me where the hell Helen of Annoy has been for the past couple of months.

#12    Euphorbia

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:16 PM

View PostCharlie Prime, on 02 August 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

In your original post you gave readers the courtesy of using capitalization.

I was going to participate in this thread, but in your next two posts you did not.

Weird.

So are you the capitalization Nazi? No thread for you. Seriously, does it matter? Can you not understand what he is saying in his post?

Oh and by the way, there are rules against complaining about others spelling and grammar!

Lighten up! There's more important things in life.....

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#13    Tiggs

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:37 PM

View PostRender, on 02 August 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Following the latest suggestion of Youtube to only post comments with your real name, it seems that the big players are all pushing to destroy anoymity on the internet.

I come from a generation where posting anonymously was the obvious choice.
Since myspace and especially since facebook it seems that this is no longer the case.

I struggle with the thought that anonymity is being fought against on the internet.
On one side law enforcement urges us not to use real names for safety reasons. On the other hand big companies urge you to use your real name, with the risk of being banned from their service if you don't (which in itself sounds rather ridicolous to me, that they're portraying themselves as something official while it's just a service), for commercial reasons and so called anti-troll reasons. Even though it has been proven that using real names has no effect on trolling or name calling etc. (see: http://techcrunch.co...prove-comments/ ).


So what's everyone's take on this?

Trolls are Trolls, regardless of anonymity. That doesn't surprise me.

The main difference is that using real names will eventually have an impact on people's life due to employer's et al looking you up on Google. A lot of employer's are extremely strict about company image, and if there's a direct "paper trail" which associates your company and a viewpoint they disagree with via you - then you're going to run into a world of trouble.

It should probably also be noted that the US government already know exactly what you do on the Internet.


#14    Eldorado

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostTiggs, on 02 August 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Trolls are Trolls, regardless of anonymity. That doesn't surprise me.

The main difference is that using real names will eventually have an impact on people's life due to employer's et al looking you up on Google. A lot of employer's are extremely strict about company image, and if there's a direct "paper trail" which associates your company and a viewpoint they disagree with via you - then you're going to run into a world of trouble.

I'm forbidden to mention the name of my employer or allude to my employer online unless it's for personal business reasons. And as I work in Personnel, I know we employ people who's job, in part, is to surf the web looking for mention of our company name.  As you say, employers take this extremely seriously.  Image is more than just "important".


#15    Render

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:32 AM

View PostJunior Chubb, on 02 August 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Not to sure what you are getting at here Render, trolling is not just name calling. If you use YouTube regularly you will see the racist element that flares up with some videos, its disgraceful and fuelled by anonymity, most of these people would not leave the comments they do if they had to use there real names. Its a similar situation to what gets uploaded, people would think twice about uploading offensive material if they had to use their real names. Twitter is also a minefield of race based comments and trending topics. Facebook is just not as blatant or direct as people tend too use their real names.

If you look at the London Riots of last year and how people used Social Media to organising looting, another reason fro people to remove anonymity from the web. There are numerous examples of Social Media being used to promote anti social activities and bullying that leads to physical violence.

I do not necessarily agree with the steps that people want to take to control the web and remove anonymity, but there is enough cause out there for them to do so and web users have nobody to blame but ourselves.

I see what you mean about the 'flamers' will be the ones who want to keep the web anonymous, I would be in favour of anonymity and I only troll occasionally. ;)
The same argument can be levelled at Identity cards, if you have do no wrong you have nothing to hide...

I have mentioned before that I think the web will split in two at some point in the future, regulated and unregulated. I really do think this is how things will go. then people will not have to do what  ISP's tell them. A bit like TV now, you can watch it legitimately or watch it illegally...

oh wow, you took it to an extreme there. I didn't even think about racist comments, haven't really seen those on youtube.

I thought of trolling and flaming being more like those "this clip is gay" comments.
Or ppl giving their wildest explanation why they don't agree with a comment or videoclip or whatever, in a non filtered way ... but it still remains funny cuz it's just meaningless.

Maybe it's because i've learned from the beginning to not take ppl on the internet to seriously. Every banter comment can be taken with a bag of salt.


But to go back to the racist remarks and just heavy attacks in general, There are already options for that with example the "report abuse" buttons.
Why isn't this enough?
they want to prevent it, okay...but then you have the risk of preventing a whole lot of funny flaming. I'd miss it.
Especially since ppl take every lil thing so personal these days. Ppl can freak about a simple comment like "this clip is gay" cuz it's not politically correct or whatever. But it just doesn't mean anything.
That's why i think somethings gotta give on both sides.
It's like we live in the "everything should be taken as a personal attack" - age. Way too many ppl are playing the victim on the internet, a lot of times over nothing.


I of course agree that heavy attacks should not be allowed, but report abuse buttons can be a big help in this. Or AI-wordsearches that automatically prevent ppl from posting very loaded racist or otherwise comments. This technology already exists, but can use some fine tuning. Why not go with that option instead of making ppl lose anonymity and expose them to different threats from their immediate readers.
Would you feel at ease if you post something on youtube with your real name and then suddenly someone looks you up on facebook to harrass you for it?

It just seems very tricky

Edited by Render, 03 August 2012 - 11:36 AM.





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