71 replies to this topic

[Emma_Acid]

spartan max2, on 20 January 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

im going to be that crackpot conspiracy theorist

But honestly i do think we probly discorved ways to cure cancer but there is to much money involved so it will never be "cured"

for Four decades the goverment has been putting money in to finding a cure. 4 DECADES. alot happens in science in four decades and your telling me we have no cure? Plus all the private companies and charities trying to fund to find a cure. but yet we havent found one?

i wasent born yeasterday

Well, you're doing a good job of sounding like you were.

Firstly, the "it wouldn't be cured because too much money is involved" makes no sense. We have a free health service in the UK, but things like cancer cost the NHS an enormous amount of money. It wouldn't make sense for them to not want to find (or fund) a cure, they're not making money out of cancer.

Also, thats not how scientific research happens. It involves so many people and organisations around the world, that you wouldn't be able to keep a cure "secret".

Secondly, cancer isn't one disease. Its a group of different diseases, requiring different research and no doubt, when the day comes, different cures. Treatment however, has got much much better in those four decades.

So maybe take the tinfoil hat off, get away from the conspiracy forums and do some proper reading.

[Emma_Acid]

Raven_Tear, on 20 January 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Surprise! Treatments make you more ill, so doctors make more money. What a concept.

Oh grow up and join reality.

[Coffey]

Emma_Acid, on 20 January 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Oh grow up and join reality.

Reality, watching pharmaceutical cancer drugs kill your little sister.



REALITY:




Makes me laugh how those who are ignorant to it all tell others to join reality.

[bmk1245]

Calling Emma ignorant... Hmmm... How about adverse effects of "magic remedies", huh? Or what you can get, for example, from acupuncture (hepatitis, heart rupture, septic sacroiliitis, septic arthritis, HIV (E.Ernst, Eur.J.Pediatr. (2003) 162, 72-80))?

[WoIverine]

bmk1245, on 20 January 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Calling Emma ignorant... Hmmm... How about adverse effects of "magic remedies", huh? Or what you can get, for example, from acupuncture (hepatitis, heart rupture, septic sacroiliitis, septic arthritis, HIV (E.Ernst, Eur.J.Pediatr. (2003) 162, 72-80))?

Foods and supplements that are high in antioxidants are not "magic remedies", they work very well against various types of cancers, that is reality. Combination therapy medical and holistic would more than likely be the best approach.

[bmk1245]

WoIverine, on 20 January 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Foods and supplements that are high in antioxidants are not "magic remedies", they work very well against various types of cancers, that is reality. [...]

Will they:
1) cure cancer?
2) make 100% you won't get cancer?
3) gives you bit more chances not to get cancer?
Which one?

WoIverine, on 20 January 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

[...] Combination therapy medical and holistic would more than likely be the best approach.

Can you give references to the studies of that? Don't bother with YT, Pravda, and similar "sources".

[Simbi Laveau]

bmk1245, on 20 January 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Calling Emma ignorant... Hmmm... How about adverse effects of "magic remedies", huh? Or what you can get, for example, from acupuncture (hepatitis, heart rupture, septic sacroiliitis, septic arthritis, HIV ([i]E.Ernst, Eur.J.Pediatr.[M/i] (2003) 162, 72-80))?

Find me statistics on how many people have died ,or caught a,disease,from acupuncture ,in the last,20 years
Find it ,and get back to us .
I looked it up once ,and there's next to no data,because acupuncture has literally no side affects ,except if the practitioner hits say a lung with a needle .
Then....look up how many people die MONTHLY ,as in one month ,from hospital mistakes,drug mistakes ,doctor mistakes,drug side affects,treatments that do not work .
Then get back to us.

There has been no,instance of disease transmission in the USA ,from acupuncture ,since the 1970s ,but you hear about dentists and clinics giving ppl hep all the time.
I can google at least half a dozen articles on that ,from the last three years .
Not to mention all those people last year from that vaccine made in massachusetts...tsk tsk .

It's absolutely illegal to use anything but one use needles in the USA ,since the 90s,so I'd love to know where anyone is getting hepatitis,except at some bad clinic run by an MD .

Part of acupuncture board exams,is JUST infectious disease control ,just so we know it all,before we go out sticking people.
We also have to know how to autoclave needles,even if we don't do it .
I believe this is also the case in europe.
This,does happen in china however....are we talking about Beijing ?

Also,you won't find a single case of death,from an herb  ,being dispensed by a qualified licensed herbalist .
QUALIFIED LICENSED HERBALIST .
Not in the usa
The only herbal deaths have ever been from some scheister,taking a good herb ,and stupidly adding it to some other formula,JUST TO MAKE MONEY .
Herbalists have a college DEGREE in herbs. Herbs are just as dangerous as drugs,when not taken properly ,so no herbalist ,has ever killed anyone,to my knowledge .Not in the usa .
Just people using herbs out of context,just to make money .

This is why Ephedra is illegal in the usa.
It was exploited ,people died,so make it illegal.
But you don't see them doing that with all the drugs that kill dozens yearly .No that they leave on the market ,to make THEM money .

Your article also shows no supporting data of its claims.
It's also as old as 1990 ,from what it says .

Edited by Simbi Laveau, 20 January 2013 - 06:33 PM.

[Simbi Laveau]

WoIverine, on 20 January 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Foods and supplements that are high in antioxidants are not "magic remedies", they work very well against various types of cancers, that is reality. Combination therapy medical and holistic would more than likely be the best approach.

I love how he asks you for statistics,when he has none of his own to show .

[bmk1245]

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Find me statistics on how many people have died ,or caught a,disease,from acupuncture ,in the last,20 years
Find it ,and get back to us
[...]

Find me statistics quackery cured cancer, will yeah?

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

[...]
Then....look up how many people die MONTHLY ,as in one month ,from hospital mistakes,drug mistakes ,doctor mistakes,drug side affects,treatments that do not work .
Then get back to us.
[...]

And what that has to do with actual drugs, huh? No one argues about human errors/mistakes, as if Big Alternativies are error-proof. And if your magic remedies would be consumed in amounts to get real effects, death rates from side effects would be huge.

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

[...]
Your article also shows no supporting data of its claims.
It's also as old as 1990 ,from what it says .

What a croc. Have you even looked at that paper? Table 2, with references? And it was published in 2003 (in 2002, on-line).

[Simbi Laveau]

bmk1245, on 20 January 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Find me statistics quackery cured cancer, will yeah?


And what that has to do with actual drugs, huh? No one argues about human errors/mistakes, as if Big Alternativies are error-proof. And if your magic remedies would be consumed in amounts to get real effects, death rates from side effects would be huge.


What a croc. Have you even looked at that paper? Table 2, with references? And it was published in 2003 (in 2002, on-line).

Hmmmm,in the usa alone,about 100,000 and that's less,die from drug related side affects .
Acupuncture has killed no one in this country for 20 years,neither has herbs .
No idea where your book got its numbers ,but its bull**** .
And 2003,was ten years ago,which means the data is even older than that,and probably from instances in third world countries.
You won't find the data on line ,because it doesn't exist .
Lol .

You know nothing about medicine. Conventional or otherwise ,as far as I can see.
Another mole.

[bmk1245]

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Hmmmm,in the usa alone,about 100,000 and that's less,die from drug related side affects .
Acupuncture has killed no one in this country for 20 years,neither has herbs .
No idea where your book got its numbers ,but its bull**** .
And 2003,was ten years ago,which means the data is even older than that,and probably from instances in third world countries.
You won't find the data on line ,because it doesn't exist .
Lol .

You know nothing about medicine. Conventional or otherwise ,as far as I can see.
Another mole.

So, please, oh Goddess, enlighten us, how many cancer patients were cured with quackery in 10 years? You know everything about medicine, don't you? Your ferociousness understandable... $100 per hour... Not bad for the job trained (in a week, or two) monkey could do and charge one banana per hour.
Edit to add:
Can you comment on the paper  Wen-Chien Chou, et al, Int.J.Cardiology 49 (1995) 173-177? Miraculous cure... Straight to heavens...

Edited by bmk1245, 20 January 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[bmk1245]

Just realized, you've edited your post

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

[...]
It's absolutely illegal to use anything but one use needles in the USA ,since the 90s,so I'd love to know where anyone is getting hepatitis,except at some bad clinic run by an MD .
[...]

And you are sure it wasn't acupuncture parlor?

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

[...]

Part of acupuncture board exams,is JUST infectious disease control ,just so we know it all,before we go out sticking people.
We also have to know how to autoclave needles,even if we don't do it .
I believe this is also the case in europe.
This,does happen in china however....are we talking about Beijing ?
[...]

Not that you reuse needles, but can you bet your life that other acupuncturists don't reuse without proper  handling?

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

[...]
Also,you won't find a single case of death,from an herb  ,being dispensed by a qualified licensed herbalist .
[...]

And when OD happens who you do blame (see my post above)? When OD happens with mainstream medicine, who you do blame?

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

[...]
QUALIFIED LICENSED HERBALIST .
Not in the usa
[...]

As if all herbalists follow the rules, not to mention their knowledge of side effects.

Simbi Laveau, on 20 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

[...]
The only herbal deaths have ever been from some scheister,taking a good herb ,and stupidly adding it to some other formula,JUST TO MAKE MONEY .
Herbalists have a college DEGREE in herbs. Herbs are just as dangerous as drugs,when not taken properly ,so no herbalist ,has ever killed anyone,to my knowledge .Not in the usa .
Just people using herbs out of context,just to make money .

This is why Ephedra is illegal in the usa.
It was exploited ,people died,so make it illegal.
But you don't see them doing that with all the drugs that kill dozens yearly .No that they leave on the market ,to make THEM money .
[...]

But you are MAKING MONEY from practice that is no better than random needle sticking. You are not killing (probably, and good for you), but you are selling snakeoil.


So, overall, what do we have? Money. And thats where no difference between Big Pharma and Big Alternativies. Business, just cold business^*.


Edit to add:

^* with the exception that Big Pharma invest loads of money into research, while Big Alternativies close to zero.

Edited by bmk1245, 20 January 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[Simbi Laveau]

bmk1245, on 20 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

So, please, oh Goddess, enlighten us, how many cancer patients were cured with quackery in 10 years? You know everything about medicine, don't you? Your ferociousness understandable... $100 per hour... Not bad for the job trained (in a week, or two) monkey could do and charge one banana per hour.
Edit to add:
Can you comment on the paper  Wen-Chien Chou, et al, Int.J.Cardiology 49 (1995) 173-177? Miraculous cure... Straight to heavens...

Acupuncture is a five year degree,AFTER college . So you need all the prerequisite someone who's going into any medicine field needs ,which includes doctors   ,nurses,,PAs....Biology ,chemistry,bio chem ,anatomy ,gross anatomy ...we have to do them all,just like your doctor does ....duh ...then its another 5 year's ,so its a nine year degree deary.


You sound almost jealous .
And as I said,there been no cases of deaths from herbs,by a licensed herbalist,in the usa,in over 20 years,if not more.
Your case is one from Taiwan ,and its one case.
Maybe look up deaths from vioxx ,deaths from amiodarone,deaths from just about every federally approved drug on the market ,including aspirin and Tylenol .
One idiocycratic case,owes ahh herbs are bad,but let's ignore the 100s of THOUSANDS OF DEATHS YEARLY ,from **** we approve as safe,and then keep on the market,even after its shown to cause...well death !
Look a little harder .lol

Edited by Simbi Laveau, 20 January 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[Simbi Laveau]

O

bmk1245, on 20 January 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Just realized, you've edited your post


And you are sure it wasn't acupuncture parlor?


Not that you reuse needles, but can you bet your life that other acupuncturists don't reuse without proper  handling?



And when OD happens who you do blame (see my post above)? When OD happens with mainstream medicine, who you do blame?



As if all herbalists follow the rules, not to mention their knowledge of side effects.


But you are MAKING MONEY from practice that is no better than random needle sticking. You are not killing (probably, and good for you), but you are selling snakeoil.


So, overall, what do we have? Money. And thats where no difference between Big Pharma and Big Alternativies. Business, just cold business^*.


Edit to add:

^* with the exception that Big Pharma invest loads of money into research, while Big Alternativies close to zero.

I charge what I deserve to make for my time. I don't hurt anyone ,and I help people .What is it you do ?
I also belong to ACUPUNCTURISTS WITHOUT BORDERS .
I didn't go to sandy hook ,because of my feelings on it,but I work with drug addicts and 911 responders,all the time,for no fee at all.

Oh yeah,just like doctors without borders. We do a lot ,just to help ,,FOR FREE.
I occ work at the AIDS clinic on 18 th ,for nothing....just to help  .

I give all city workers a break on price,and elderly get a huge discount ,but you knew that. My regular fee is under 100$ btw,but you knew that too .

You know very little about acupuncturists and herbalists in the usa ......  .tut .  

[Simbi Laveau]

bmk1245, on 20 January 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Just realized, you've edited your post


And you are sure it wasn't acupuncture parlor?


Not that you reuse needles, but can you bet your life that other acupuncturists don't reuse without proper  handling?



And when OD happens who you do blame (see my post above)? When OD happens with mainstream medicine, who you do blame?



As if all herbalists follow the rules, not to mention their knowledge of side effects.


But you are MAKING MONEY from practice that is no better than random needle sticking. You are not killing (probably, and good for you), but you are selling snakeoil.


So, overall, what do we have? Money. And thats where no difference between Big Pharma and Big Alternativies. Business, just cold business^*.


Edit to add:

^* with the exception that Big Pharma invest loads of money into research, while Big Alternativies close to zero.

You might want to look up Sloan Kettering Cancer center.
They are the premiere cancer research hospital in the usa.
They do a ton of research ,and they include acupuncture and herbs in their treatment plan.
The docto in charge of it all,is a classically trained acupuncturist and herbalist,who then went to medical school .
He believe the best cure for cancer ,involves both modalities .
Excuse me while I lol again.
Pharm does not true research,except to make more drugs .
They also lie when their study results are negative ,so its not like their research is even credible .
They also make up stuff about alternative treatments that are not true ,because they don't want us stealing their patients.
Also,if we say we cured cancer,we can be put in jail .It's why no alternative pratictioner can say that anywhere,so of course you won't find articles about it .
LOL
Cancer treatments in reg hospitals also,do not cure cancer ,so ....no difference really .
Except they charge 10000s for your trouble ,and we charge next to nothing ..lol lol lol

http://www.mskcc.org...dicine/research