92 replies to this topic

[Ron Jeremy]

It's not a matter of ignorance. It's a matter of intellectual honesty.

See, I am definitely not an atheist. But I am kinda close to agnostic and contemplate on the idea of the Cosmic God whose scale is unimaginably huge and won't interfere with trivial affairs like human ones. After years of study, I came to believe that most deities in major religions are basically the reflection of the very cultures that worship them.

Funny thing is that I saw this question on Yahoo! Answer (a truly despicable place). One Christian asked atheists if they are not afraid of the being wrong and going to hell. Well, from the beginning is there any guarantee that God is the Christian one? What if God doesn't fit into any existing religion? (which I believe) What if afterlife is very different from what conventional religions depict?

You know, I strongly believe that sometime you have to accept the uncertainty when you are pursuing truth. I am not saying that atheists are right but it takes a lot of faith (or just environmental indoctrination) to believe in ancient religions that were invented by profoundly primitive and stupid people.

But see, thinking outside of the box can be frustrating. There's no guarantee that your own conclusion on God and spirituality is right. Probably nobody's right.(I hope.) And human nature doesn't like uncertainty. belief in certainty might be a good defensive and coping mechanism....

[Alienated Being]

Read "The God Delusion"

[Ron Jeremy]

Alienated Being, on 31 January 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

Read "The God Delusion"

I plan to read it again someday.

[Habitat]

Ron Jeremy, on 31 January 2012 - 01:58 AM, said:

I plan to read it again someday.

Use it to throw at unruly neighbourhood dogs, IMO. Far better to review the literature of old where book sales were not an incentive to peddle non-existent knowledge.

[Condescending]

Ron Jeremy, on 31 January 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

It's not a matter of ignorance. It's a matter of intellectual honesty.

See, I am definitely not an atheist. But I am kinda close to agnostic and contemplate on the idea of the Cosmic God whose scale is unimaginably huge and won't interfere with trivial affairs like human ones. After years of study, I came to believe that most deities in major religions are basically the reflection of the very cultures that worship them.

Funny thing is that I saw this question on Yahoo! Answer (a truly despicable place). One Christian asked atheists if they are not afraid of the being wrong and going to hell. Well, from the beginning is there any guarantee that God is the Christian one? What if God doesn't fit into any existing religion? (which I believe) What if afterlife is very different from what conventional religions depict?

You know, I strongly believe that sometime you have to accept the uncertainty when you are pursuing truth. I am not saying that atheists are right but it takes a lot of faith (or just environmental indoctrination) to believe in ancient religions that were invented by profoundly primitive and stupid people.

But see, thinking outside of the box can be frustrating. There's no guarantee that your own conclusion on God and spirituality is right. Probably nobody's right.(I hope.) And human nature doesn't like uncertainty. belief in certainty might be a good defensive and coping mechanism....

One could establish it like this.

You are standing in the middle of no-where, you are told the truth is out there and you just have to search for it. There is an unfathomable amount of sign posts surrounding you, each claiming to be the right way.. you pick one, or more likely one is picked for you. You start walking.
You walk for miles, but there is no Gods, you eventually meet people along the way all telling you that you picked the right direction although they can never say how far you have to go and after many more miles the truth finally dawns on you, that there is people in every single direction, who will tell you exactly the same thing. Tell you that their path is the right one, and you will just have to keep walking.
It now becomes clear that your task is impossible, you only have a limited number of years in your life and you can spend them all walking in the same futile direction or you can spend them trying multiple futile directions and obviously the length you try on each individual direction is divided by any number you try. It is impossible to investigate every idea in any depth so requiring any depth of investigation sets an impossible condition.
What is being proposed is a game of pure chance, you could say that one aspect of atheism is a refusal to play an impossible game.

This is likely one type of answer that would be put forth from an atheist asked the question of certainty, and to me, it is worthy of more respect than the faith based analysis I have met on the same topic.

[Ron Jeremy]

Condescending, on 31 January 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

One could establish it like this.

You are standing in the middle of no-where, you are told the truth is out there and you just have to search for it. There is an unfathomable amount of sign posts surrounding you, each claiming to be the right way.. you pick one, or more likely one is picked for you. You start walking.
You walk for miles, but there is no Gods, you eventually meet people along the way all telling you that you picked the right direction although they can never say how far you have to go and after many more miles the truth finally dawns on you, that there is people in every single direction, who will tell you exactly the same thing. Tell you that their path is the right one, and you will just have to keep walking.
It now becomes clear that your task is impossible, you only have a limited number of years in your life and you can spend them all walking in the same futile direction or you can spend them trying multiple futile directions and obviously the length you try on each individual direction is divided by any number you try. It is impossible to investigate every idea in any depth so requiring any depth of investigation sets an impossible condition.
What is being proposed is a game of pure chance, you could say that one aspect of atheism is a refusal to play an impossible game.

This is likely one type of answer that would be put forth from an atheist asked the question of certainty, and to me, it is worthy of more respect than the faith based analysis I have met on the same topic.

  Thanks. I love this post.   Sometimes I am terrified by the certainty and convictions of hardcore believers.

[Habitat]

Condescending, on 31 January 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

It is impossible to investigate every idea in any depth so requiring any depth of investigation sets an impossible condition.
What is being proposed is a game of pure chance, you could say that one aspect of atheism is a refusal to play an impossible game.

This is likely one type of answer that would be put forth from an atheist asked the question of certainty, and to me, it is worthy of more respect than the faith based analysis I have met on the same topic.

You have not truly sought. The "idea" that rings true to me, appears early and often in any concerted "search".

That is real which is not sullied by matter, my son, nor limited by boundaries, that which has neither colour nor shape, which is without a vesture, is luminous, is apprehended by itself alone, changeless and unalterable......

(Hermes Trismegistos)

There are hundreds of such sages to ponder, but if you have no patience or stomach for it, your time is not at hand.

[StarMountainKid]

I like your post, too, Condescending. I was thinking earlier today that we know virtually nothing about the universe. We have discovered through science a few details about its organization, but compared to what there is to know, our knowledge is trivial.

As for spiritual knowledge, we know absolutely nothing, in my opinion. I try to keep an open mind on this subject, but my inclination is that there is nothing there to know.

[Habitat]

StarMountainKid, on 31 January 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

As for spiritual knowledge, we know absolutely nothing, in my opinion.

We know nothing in the sense of conventional 'knowing' using our inquiring mind, if you can put that faculty aside and into hibernation, you will know all spiritually. Most find they are 'possessed' by the things that bar the way, and cannot break the bonds. It is a work of subtraction, not one of addition.

[Paranoid Android]

Condescending, on 31 January 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

One could establish it like this.

You are standing in the middle of no-where, you are told the truth is out there and you just have to search for it. There is an unfathomable amount of sign posts surrounding you, each claiming to be the right way.. you pick one, or more likely one is picked for you. You start walking.
You walk for miles, but there is no Gods, you eventually meet people along the way all telling you that you picked the right direction although they can never say how far you have to go and after many more miles the truth finally dawns on you, that there is people in every single direction, who will tell you exactly the same thing. Tell you that their path is the right one, and you will just have to keep walking.
It now becomes clear that your task is impossible, you only have a limited number of years in your life and you can spend them all walking in the same futile direction or you can spend them trying multiple futile directions and obviously the length you try on each individual direction is divided by any number you try. It is impossible to investigate every idea in any depth so requiring any depth of investigation sets an impossible condition.
What is being proposed is a game of pure chance, you could say that one aspect of atheism is a refusal to play an impossible game.

This is likely one type of answer that would be put forth from an atheist asked the question of certainty, and to me, it is worthy of more respect than the faith based analysis I have met on the same topic.

You mention that part of atheism is a refusal to play. It could also be argued that atheism is just another signpost in that middle of nowhere, and you're walking it and meet others who have taken the same road with no idea how long the journey is.

Just thinking

[SamDavies]

Condescending, on 31 January 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

One could establish it like this.

You are standing in the middle of no-where, you are told the truth is out there and you just have to search for it. There is an unfathomable amount of sign posts surrounding you, each claiming to be the right way.. you pick one, or more likely one is picked for you. You start walking.
You walk for miles, but there is no Gods, you eventually meet people along the way all telling you that you picked the right direction although they can never say how far you have to go and after many more miles the truth finally dawns on you, that there is people in every single direction, who will tell you exactly the same thing. Tell you that their path is the right one, and you will just have to keep walking.
It now becomes clear that your task is impossible, you only have a limited number of years in your life and you can spend them all walking in the same futile direction or you can spend them trying multiple futile directions and obviously the length you try on each individual direction is divided by any number you try. It is impossible to investigate every idea in any depth so requiring any depth of investigation sets an impossible condition.
What is being proposed is a game of pure chance, you could say that one aspect of atheism is a refusal to play an impossible game.

This is likely one type of answer that would be put forth from an atheist asked the question of certainty, and to me, it is worthy of more respect than the faith based analysis I have met on the same topic.

Life is too short to be lead down the garden path. Question everything and make ones own, I say. The sun will rise tomorrow is about the only certainty any of us have. Even death is questionable   . Till then just keep smelling the flowers and try to get stung as little as possible.

[Xpeople]

Paranoid Android, on 31 January 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

You mention that part of atheism is a refusal to play. It could also be argued that atheism is just another signpost in that middle of nowhere, and you're walking it and meet others who have taken the same road with no idea how long the journey is.

Just thinking

Do you mean that atheism is just another religion?

[Hero of our time.]

Atheists are who  Refuse to play a game . I immunized myself from this illness ,every day . Paul said in his epistle " i die . . each day "  Each man has a purpose , work , mission to do in this world. This work is " Father's business " expressed in Jesus' word. No refusal , hopelessness . Keep on living in it .

[Paranoid Android]

Xpeople, on 31 January 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

Do you mean that atheism is just another religion?

More correctly I would describe it as another path. We all walk our paths, and we all start in the same middle-of-nowhere and the rest is up to us. Some of us believe that at the end of the journey something else awaits. Others, such as atheists, don't (though atheism does not necessarily preclude reincarnation).

[Xpeople]

Paranoid Android, on 31 January 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

More correctly I would describe it as another path. We all walk our paths, and we all start in the same middle-of-nowhere and the rest is up to us. Some of us believe that at the end of the journey something else awaits. Others, such as atheists, don't (though atheism does not necessarily preclude reincarnation).

If all these religions is a path and atheism is a path then atheism is just another religions.