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how do you explain shared experiences?


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#16    SpiritWriter

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:24 PM

Nice job trying to come up with answers guys ;) im not being sarcastic about that either....

Edited by SpiritWriter, 14 March 2013 - 07:25 PM.

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Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#17    CrimsonKing

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:39 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 14 March 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

Nice job trying to come up with answers guys ;) im not being sarcastic about that either....

How would you explain them?When asking a question to others always share your thoughts aswell  :P

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#18    SpiritWriter

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 14 March 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:



How would you explain them?When asking a question to others always share your thoughts aswell  :P

Well... I can maybe come back for a better, more thought out answer.. but I am not a skeptic if you havent noticed so I will probably explain them as real phenomenon, I think each experience would have its own explaination, probably most of the time it would be on a level that we could only assume but not have full understandings of.

I think there are several ways of thinking about and perceiving things. I agree with your previous post that there are other realms. I think they are interconnected and when two or three reasons align they may temporarily merge and become apparent to each other (communication). As for the toys moving by themselves etc.. spirits are in the form of energy so they can use electronic devices for easy communication. For slipping into another realm? Yeah I think that the circumstances just line up correctly in that moment and there is a higher force that wants to make itself known to you.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 14 March 2013 - 07:59 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#19    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 06 March 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Can you at least try to explain it without passing the buck to your same old arguements? I am not trying to come off rude or put people in positions that there is no answer, but really.. try to think about it. There are a lot of shared experiences out there.. I cannot explain them away personally because I believe in stuff like that but I wonder what some of the popular train of thought would be in situations like these.

Spot on. The usual argument is "they're nutters", their argument for group experiences is "they're liars".

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#20    CrimsonKing

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:22 PM

View PostThe Skater Boy, on 14 March 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Spot on. The usual argument is "they're nutters", their argument for group experiences is "they're liars".

I think the reason for this skater is that some people who experience these things have experienced every damn thing from bigfoot to aliens to demons and everything else ever put out there that is not of this world.Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.A good way of reasoning when some never stop rambling on about things they can do or have done or have seen or have heard without the slightest shred of proof.I believe strange things do go on in our universe but when no proof is there other than ones word you can hardly blame them for not believing.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#21    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:34 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 14 March 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

I think the reason for this skater is that some people who experience these things have experienced every damn thing from bigfoot to aliens to demons and everything else ever put out there that is not of this world.Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.A good way of reasoning when some never stop rambling on about things they can do or have done or have seen or have heard without the slightest shred of proof.I believe strange things do go on in our universe but when no proof is there other than ones word you can hardly blame them for not believing.

Oh, I absolutely agree some people have mental illness and that some people are downright frauds, seeking attention or money but there are genuine people who experience genuine things (just speaking from a ghost/demon perspective here, no idea about aliens and big foot :P)

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#22    CrimsonKing

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostThe Skater Boy, on 14 March 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Oh, I absolutely agree some people have mental illness and that some people are downright frauds, seeking attention or money but there are genuine people who experience genuine things (just speaking from a ghost/demon perspective here, no idea about aliens and big foot :P)

HaHa thats what im saying it makes it very hard to sort what is real and who is telling the truth.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#23    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:43 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 14 March 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

HaHa thats what im saying it makes it very hard to sort what is real and who is telling the truth.

Very true, especially online. On a forum like this, I would be more inclined to give somebody the benefit of doubt, though, and some skeptic comments... well, it's good to be skeptical but that requires you to have an open mind to some extent, imo, rather than just dismiss something off the bat without even trying to understand. Read so many comments on the forum from people who command evidence and proof; left, right and center where their only argument is mental illness or they're liars (of which THEY have little to no proof of.. :P) some people are just down right rude about it too.

I would definitely encourage somebody to have an informal chat with their doctor (and I have to at least one person since being here :P) but I couldn't just call somebody a liar, which is what is the go-to for group experiences. Mind you, I've had plenty of my own experiences (solo and with others) so I am going to be more open to things I read here :yes:

Edited by The Skater Boy, 14 March 2013 - 09:10 PM.

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#24    Rafterman

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:58 PM

View PostThe Skater Boy, on 14 March 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Spot on. The usual argument is "they're nutters", their argument for group experiences is "they're liars".

No, they may truly believe what they are experiencing is true.  Their interpretation is just incorrect.

And I'll add one to my list of two above - they are victims of a hoax.

Remember the famous Memorial Day bigfoot video.  Those people were thoroughly convinced they saw Bigfoot running across that hillside.  They weren't lying and they weren't crazy.  They were simply victims of a couple guys with a monkey suit looking to have a little fun.

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#25    Frank Merton

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:16 PM

What do you do with a personal paranormal experience?

First, if you are not too wrapped up in yourself, you ask if maybe there is another possible interpretation.  Then you keep your damn mouth shut.  It does no good telling others; they may or may not believe you, generally some mixture of belief and doubt, and that's an end of it.  You would be better off not generating the doubts and disbeliefs.  Especially because any disbelief you pick up, even if subtle, will hurt your relationship with that person.

Narrating such events on a board such as this may be a good way to let off the steam, but, again, does it do any good?  I suppose it allows people to compare notes, except who are you comparing notes with?  How many of the stories you get for comparisons are reliable?


#26    SpiritWriter

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:27 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 15 March 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

What do you do with a personal paranormal experience?

First, if you are not too wrapped up in yourself, you ask if maybe there is another possible interpretation.  Then you keep your damn mouth shut.  It does no good telling others; they may or may not believe you, generally some mixture of belief and doubt, and that's an end of it.  You would be better off not generating the doubts and disbeliefs.  Especially because any disbelief you pick up, even if subtle, will hurt your relationship with that person.

Narrating such events on a board such as this may be a good way to let off the steam, but, again, does it do any good?  I suppose it allows people to compare notes, except who are you comparing notes with?  How many of the stories you get for comparisons are reliable?

I dont agree with this at all.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#27    SpiritWriter

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:35 PM

Well actually I do agree with it somewhat but it's sad it has to be that way.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#28    SpiritWriter

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

I finally told my mom like 12 years after some of this stuff happened and I was sobbing because I knew she didnt beliwve me. The hardest part is not having anyone to talk to.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#29    Yamato

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 05 March 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

We often see that unexplained phenomenon is shared between one or more people who afterward describe the event in the same way.. on these threads I see skeptics challenging the validity of these phenomenon, but I never see the shared experience aspect challenged.

Examples:

1.Five people live in a house that is haunted, two of them can see the same ghost and give it the exact same description. All family members witness things flying around in the house at the same time. Other people who come over also have heard voices in the house and had never heard anything like this before.

2. three people are together in a field and all of them see three large brightly colored orbs in the sky that come close to the ground and suddenly fly off at great speed leaving a light trail

3. Three people witness a creature that looks like a werewolf, he is standing upright and is 8 ft tall, he chases them and they all go to the bathroom on themselves. Each of them describe seeing this creature clearly and each description of sequence of events and physical characteristics of the monster is the same.

4. 2 people enter the astral realm together, first they are at the beach looking at the water but then suddenly both of them are standing on a high ledge on the top of a mountain, they both are amazed and can see the exact same things.

These examples are similar to some that I have read about, heard about or have experienced with others in real life. Let's pretend that lying is not an option.. to the best of your ability how can you explain Shared Experiences?

You dont need to use these examples, you can use your own or stick to general terms. I'm just trying to explain the sort of thing I mean...
I had a shared experience with my family right after my sister died.  I spent a long time writing a post in full detail and put it on the Paranormal board and it was my very first post on this website, it's what brought me here in fact, and I see that post is now gone (why?).    It's pretty sad that it's gone and all the replies it had with it.  Anyway, I felt someone tapping twice my shoulder in bed and turning and seeing nobody there, my dad felt someone pressing on his chest/shoulder twice and noticing the same thing.   Neither of us was led by the other; this was completely out of the blue.   I didn't know it happened to my dad until I told my mom about the experience and she started crying, which prompted her to tell me about his simultaneous touch.   I say I "felt someone" because it felt exactly like someone tapping on my shoulder.

I know of another shared paranormal experience where my best friend's mother and sister were at a funeral of their mother/grandmother and claim they saw a ball of energy flying around the room.   I wasn't there, so I can only go by what they said, but their story sounded compelling when they remembered it together.    I had a massive dream about my departed grandmother speaking to me and I found out after it was on her birthday.  That wasn't led subconsciously either because I had no idea what her birthday was.   Parents had poltergeists after moving into a new house.   Lights, sounds, displaced objects, human footsteps in the hallway, all shared together.  

Of course people are skeptical.  I'm skeptical of every story I hear from anyone.   When it happens to you, at the very least you concede to the fact that there is much we don't know in this world.

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#30    Frank Merton

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:00 PM

Now I'm going to tell a story that may or may not be true.  It may really have happened or I may be just inventing it to make a point.

Many years ago my wife and I shared the experience of being visited by my wife's dead mother during the night.  It happened several times; nothing really except that we both saw her clearly.

We told no one.  In Vietnam being a ghost is the most horrible thing that can happen to you when you die.  It means you have not gone on to rebirth but are stuck, miserable, unable to do anything except wander alone, cold, desiring life but not having it.

Would you tell others that this had happened to your relative?  Isn't it far better for me to try to convince my wife we had imagined it out of our grief?

I think there may be some matters that don't pertain to science and that we should leave alone and not try to investigate or resolve.





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