1373 replies to this topic

[Myles]

Anyone know where I can buy a t-shirt supporting George?

I want one to protest mob (media) rules.

[Pyridium]

I believe the police have evidence that has not been reported to the public, yet.  What did Trayvon possess the night he was shot?  That answer is the reason Zimmerman has not been charged and never will be charged.  Case closed.

[and then]

Babe Ruth, on 08 April 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Screaming like a little girl, or screaming like a little boy?

For a disinterested observer, it sounds like your mind is fairly well made up already?

In my vernacular the expression "scream like a little girl" is a pejorative implying that a guy is weak and maybe spineless.  It denotes fear and weakness on Z's part as he was flat of his back being pummeled.  And no I have not made up my mind because there have been no witnesses heard from in an official legal setting where they are under penalty of law if they lie.  If the witnesses corroborate that Z followed and attacked Martin then I hope they hang him.  Even if Z is acquitted under a lousy law he will still go through life knowing he caused this young man's death by being a cowboy.
I'll say it again - my interest is that NO ONE be railroaded by a lynch mob and that is exactly what is being attempted by the race hustlers and news organs around the country.  I've lived in the deep south my whole life and I know that racism is still a fact of life here.  But not nearly to the extent being portrayed in this case.  I think Z had aspirations to be Dirty Harry and he caused a situation that got out of control.  I don't believe Trayvon's death was premeditated; it was the result of stupidity and circumstances and if the witnesses are sufficient to prove that then Z should spend many years in jail.
But if there were no witnesses who agree and there is the slightest doubt about his guilt then he MUST be given the protection of this lousy law.

[Pyridium]

Where is the reply to the people?  Why is Zimmerman still not arrested?  The lead investigator has the power to arrest and charge Zimmerman now.  Are the protesters being denied justice?  They demand, the police should comply?  What kind of mob mentality do we live in, and this is the Uniter States?  Will the process be delivered to the Grand Jury?  What if the Grand Jury does not press charges, is it over then?  Does more blood have to be spilled before Al Sharpton gets a clue?  He is the one with blueberry all over his face, time and time again.

[Myles]

and then, on 08 April 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

In my vernacular the expression "scream like a little girl" is a pejorative implying that a guy is weak and maybe spineless.  It denotes fear and weakness on Z's part as he was flat of his back being pummeled.  And no I have not made up my mind because there have been no witnesses heard from in an official legal setting where they are under penalty of law if they lie.  If the witnesses corroborate that Z followed and attacked Martin then I hope they hang him.  Even if Z is acquitted under a lousy law he will still go through life knowing he caused this young man's death by being a cowboy.
I'll say it again - my interest is that NO ONE be railroaded by a lynch mob and that is exactly what is being attempted by the race hustlers and news organs around the country.  I've lived in the deep south my whole life and I know that racism is still a fact of life here.  But not nearly to the extent being portrayed in this case.  I think Z had aspirations to be Dirty Harry and he caused a situation that got out of control.  I don't believe Trayvon's death was premeditated; it was the result of stupidity and circumstances and if the witnesses are sufficient to prove that then Z should spend many years in jail.
But if there were no witnesses who agree and there is the slightest doubt about his guilt then he MUST be given the protection of this lousy law.

It may be a lousy law in the way that it is written, but a similar law is needed to protect people from being charged with murder for protecting themselves.  This may not apply to George.

[Wandering]

Pyridium, on 08 April 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

I believe the police have evidence that has not been reported to the public, yet.  What did Trayvon possess the night he was shot?  That answer is the reason Zimmerman has not been charged and never will be charged.  Case closed.

Certainly wouldn't surprise me.

Don't expect to get any credit if you turn out to be right though. Trayvon supporters will just slink away to lick their wounds, before latching on to the next media outcry.

[DieChecker]

susieice, on 08 April 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

No, it doesn't. Zimmerman's last call to 911 is where he makes arrangements to meet the officer he knows to be enroute at the mailboxes then changes his mind and tells them to call him and he'll let them know where he is. He never tells them he's going back to the truck. That call ends at 7:15. The link is in here.

The only living witness to what happened after Z hung up on the 911 operator is Z. I've not seen a map of the crime scene, so I could easily be wrong, but was the scene of the shooting between the mailboxes and where Z left his car, or was the shooting scene in some other direction? If the shooting location is far from the mailboxes or car, then I'd agree Z went back looking for trouble.

Leonardo, on 08 April 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

The testimony from his girlfriend indicates Trayvon did run initially. Then Zimmerman found him again, whereupon Trayvon said [to his girlfriend] he was not going to run. Then there is a confrontation where Martin asks Zimmerman "Why are you following me?". Zimmerman does not reply but asks Martin "What are you doing here?" This is the point the girlfriend states she heard noises like people in a scuffle, and Martin's headset dropped, losing phone contact.

If Martin had decided to use force at this point, he would (were he alive) have a case for that force being justified. It is only if Zimmerman left to return to his car after that brief confrontation, and Martin pursued him, that Zimmerman has a valid case for self-defence.

As Susieice states, the 911 call where Zimmerman says he is going back to his car also includes him changing his mind and continuing his pursuit of Martin on foot.

Unless that phone call was taped, it is up to some debate, don't you think? Perhaps Trayvon said he was not going to run anymore and ment he was going back to confront Z? The term can be used that way. What also seems clear is that Z did not intend on physically having it out with Trayvon, he had a gun and would have pulled it if he thought he would have to to detain Trayvon. Logically Trayvon MUST have been the first to strike out.

The 911 call does not include Z saying he is going to continue looking for Martin, it can be deduced, but is not stated.

Babe Ruth, on 08 April 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

DieChecker

SYG actually DOES matter, despite your protestations.

It was that statute that the State Attorney Office cited in dismissing the manslaughter charges against Z proposed by the investigating officer, remember?

Another question might be 'was Martin entitled to stand his ground in self defense?'.  If he was being followed by Z, what is he entitled to do to defend himself?

SYG still would not matter. As it would be superceded by the Federal level defense of Self Defence. If you claim a local ordinance as protection and it is superceded by a state or federal law, your still hosed. That the Attorneys Office cited SYG simply means they did not have all the details of the case in hand yet. Just as the investigating officer did not have all the details yet.

I do agree Zimmerman should have been held for 48 hours on suspicion, till the details could have been figured out better, but what details we have now say it really is not necessary to bring Z back in. The preponderance of evidence says he acted in self defense and was justified in the shooting.

[conspiracybeliever]

Prosecutor rules out grand jury in Trayvon Martin case

Reuters) - The special prosecutor investigating the shooting death of unarmed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin has ruled out using a grand jury in the case, meaning her office alone will decide whether to charge shooter George Zimmerman with a crime


http://www.yahoo.com...-160059250.html

[F3SS]

conspiracybeliever, on 09 April 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Prosecutor rules out grand jury in Trayvon Martin case

Reuters) - The special prosecutor investigating the shooting death of unarmed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin has ruled out using a grand jury in the case, meaning her office alone will decide whether to charge shooter George Zimmerman with a crime


http://www.yahoo.com...-160059250.html

That probably just means there isn't as much to this case as some would believe. I'm sure this prosecutor knows the law better than us. There is probably a good reason. Nothing shady.

[and then]

Is it for real, on 09 April 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

That probably just means there isn't as much to this case as some would believe. I'm sure this prosecutor knows the law better than us. There is probably a good reason. Nothing shady.

Yet they still haven't arrested him.  If there is sufficient hard evidence then why not appease the crowd immediately and arrest?  They've had weeks to build a case that would stand up in court.  I wonder if they simply don't want to risk a mob scene at the detention facility?  Would he be released on bail?  How to keep him safe if he is released?  The State of Florida is apt to spend some BIG money on this case and I'm sure they'd like to avoid a lawsuit from him at a future date if they go about his prosecution improperly.  He should probably just be taken into Federal custody for his own safety at this point.

[Pyridium]

There is no criminal act here.  The Grand Jury would have laughed this out the door.  There is no incriminating evidence.  There will be no charges, that will be justice.  Case closed.

For those of you that seem to be in a rush to arrest and convict Zimmerman without due process, have at it.  No charges means cities will burn?

[conspiracybeliever]

Is it for real, on 09 April 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

That probably just means there isn't as much to this case as some would believe. I'm sure this prosecutor knows the law better than us. There is probably a good reason. Nothing shady.

Ya you're probably right. Nothing shady about prosecutors. They're right up there next to God.  

[conspiracybeliever]

Pyridium, on 09 April 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

There is no criminal act here.  The Grand Jury would have laughed this out the door.  There is no incriminating evidence.  There will be no charges, that will be justice.  Case closed.

For those of you that seem to be in a rush to arrest and convict Zimmerman without due process, have at it.  No charges means cities will burn?

It was a criminal act that he wasn't jailed the night it happened!

[Myles]

conspiracybeliever, on 09 April 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

It was a criminal act that he wasn't jailed the night it happened!

Unless he was innocent.

[F3SS]

conspiracybeliever, on 09 April 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Ya you're probably right. Nothing shady about prosecutors. They're right up there next to God.  

Ok yea. Prosecutors and lawyers in general can be real scummy. I agree. However, don't you think the PROSECUTOR would love to tell a grand jury all the juicy tidbits she has to use for a PROSECUTION?! It would likely be her pleasure. For a prosecutor not to want to exploit her case any way possible would be silly. Therefore, maybe this is a little more cut and dry than you would like to think. Must not be a lt of evidence against Z. Maybe she doesn't have a lot to go on. Especially if she knows the SYG law and knows travon was the aggressor. Just because Z was nosy doesnt mean he was agressive. Maybe not, we will see.