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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#106    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:28 PM

A war has been started on grammar. I don't know ancient Egyptians vocabulary/urban dictionary.

But I know a guy who will call God a guy.

Edited by kampz, 22 December 2012 - 11:28 PM.


#107    Mangoze

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostLRW, on 22 December 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Judging by your post, you lack the intelligence to understand as to what exactly defines a GOD that in the mythology of the people is clearly defined as having an extraterrestrial origin.

Its not surprising though, given your general lack of knowledge regarding such matters and in turn your callous reaction to the topic.
I'm concise, so that people understand.  If you read about supernatural mythology in any depth you can clearly see how it differs from the extra-terrestrial lore.

You however are not even argumentative - just merely militantly contradictory.


#108    kmt_sesh

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

View PostLRW, on 22 December 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Directly contradicting yourself again, how on earth they made you a moderator is quite bizarre. No doubt you will try and use your moderating status to worm your way out of your contradiction.

Definition of God: The Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe.

Definition of Alien: A creature from outer space.

Gods and Goddesses especially the ones from the ancient egyptian pantheon have an alien/extraterrestrial character.

Since the ancient egyptians were believing in gods and goddesses (whether real or not) makes them ancient alien theorists in egyptology research.

For someone with a museum position and so called knowledge of ancient egyptians, you sure like to contradict yourself lol.

It would be interesting to see your reaction to ancients if they were still alive and told you their creator deities came not from earth but from outside it.

Please be more mindful of your comments about Moderators. You're heading down a bad road by trying to make this personal. Do not make this personal.

There is no such thing as an ancient alien "theorist." A theory, when properly employed, describes an argument based on extant evidence that anyone of similar education and training can review based on the same evidence, and verify or enhance. Nothing in the ancient-alien camp fits this category because none of it survives scrutiny.

You've now spent several posts quoting my same lines from my single post. Going forward I suggest you collect your thoughts and compose a single, coherent response.

I'm not quite sure how far to take this dialogue with you because you seem more interested in making snippy comments than in discussing the merits of the debate, but I am always open to dialogue. All I ask is that you dial it down. The fact that I'm a Moderator should be irrelevant to you. You are required to remain civil to all posters, whoever they may be.

But to the point, your definition of "God" is a good one for the Judeo-Christian Yahweh but is not well suited to ancient Egyptian deities. Nor to the deities of most ancient Mediterranean peoples, for that matter. For example, these deities were often not all powerful, and they were far from perfect. Look into the Negative Confession in the Book of the Dead, as one example. How are deities supposed to be perfect when the Egyptians believed it was so easy to lie to them and fool them?

There is no one, single creation myth in ancient Egypt because it depended on where in the Nile Valley you lived. If you lived in the far north, you believed Atum sprung from a flower that had sprouted from a mound of mud which had emerged from the waters of chaos. Nearby, in the region of Memphis, you might have believed creation occurred because Ptah simply spoke it into being. If you lived far south, you believed Khnum formed people on his potter's wheel.

Obviously, none of this is remotely connected to space aliens. The Egyptians left us not a single clue to believe otherwise. I would suggest turning off Ancient Aliens and picking up a few good history books.

I would also suggest more concrete examples toward your agenda. You're speaking in generalities. For example, you say Amun-Re was an extraterrestrial deity and because the Egyptians worshiped him, they believed in aliens. First, then, present the evidence you feel would show Amun-Re as an "extraterrestrial deity" (I'm not even sure what that term is supposed to mean). Next, present evidence that the Egyptians believed Amun-Re was an alien.

There have been many volumes written on the god Amun-Re alone, so you have no shortage of research material to delve into. Go ahead and get started, but don't return to me with generic statements, and please do watch your step with the personal remarks. You don't want to go there.

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#109    LRW

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

View PostMangoze, on 22 December 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

I'm concise, so that people understand.  If you read about supernatural mythology in any depth you can clearly see how it differs from the extra-terrestrial lore.

You however are not even argumentative - just merely militantly contradictory.

*Snip*

On that note, i don't want to converse with you on the topic, its like conversing with a sheep.

View Postkmt_sesh, on 23 December 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

But to the point, your definition of "God" is a good one for the Judeo-Christian Yahweh but is not well suited to ancient Egyptian deities. Nor to the deities of most ancient Mediterranean peoples, for that matter. For example, these deities were often not all powerful, and they were far from perfect. "extraterrestrial deity" (I'm not even sure what that term is supposed to mean).
.

*Snip*  So, please when you are replying to one of my posts, don't use that as leverage, if anything i believe it makes you less credible on the topic. Thats my opinion by the way.  

You now say the ancient deities described in the so called ancient egyptian pantheon and deities from mediterranean are not all that powerful, well i'll disagree with you on that, i believe they were powerful deities and powerful abilities were attributed to them.

I knew that you would try to give Amun or Amun-Ra an earthly origin in the mythology. Which again i'll disagree with, because their ancient mythology and creation myth was based around the cosmos. The egyptologists are only foolishly guessing their mythology and still know very little about it. The general consensus mainstream creation myth by egyptologists is given as a "lifeless sea from which 8 primordial deities sprang from" such a sea could never be considered an earth, when the sun is being described as having descended from such a primordial river, therefore the beings that sprang from it could be considered to be of an extraterrestrial character whether fiction or not, because earth is not a sea its a planet, also in the consensus mythology Amun sprang to life originally from that sea and later became to be represented as the sun god Amun-Ra. He is a transcendent deity, transcendence refers to the aspect of God's nature and power which is wholly independent of and removed from the material universe. In other words extraterrestrial.

You also say in your post, you're not sure what extraterrestrial means, of course you don't because you are ignorant towards the topic. You attribute everything about the topic extraterrestrial to one show seen on history channel, "Ancient Aliens", i don't believe everything they say, also don't be go assuming what i read or don't read.

You say the ancient mediterranean deities were not powerful, that has to be the most foolish comment i have yet seen on UM.

They were incredibly powerful deities, whole armies died for them.

Ares.

Posted Image

Zeus.

Posted Image

It might be all fun and games and fairytales to the likes of you, but to the people who worshipped them, it was anything but fun and games, people spilled blood for them. Thats how powerful their beliefs in them were.

*Snip*

Edited by kmt_sesh, 23 December 2012 - 06:55 AM.
Removed unnecessary personal remarks. Do not attack posters.


#110    Dontlisten2me

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:02 AM

What do you really mean?


#111    Mangoze

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:50 AM

View PostLRW, on 23 December 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Going from what i have read from your posts, you know next to nothing about supernatural mythology, its construction, its esoteric nature and powerful metaphors.

On that note, i don't want to converse with you on the topic, its like conversing with a sheep.
...

Wow!  You really told me!


#112    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

View Postkampz, on 23 December 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

What do you really mean?
Judging by form, he wants you to think something of his post, and either agree with him (which is good from his POV) or disagree with him (which makes you an idiot from his POV).
Happily, by keeping things open-ended he loses nothing and can easily say you misunderstood him.


#113    Harte

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:21 AM

View PostLRW, on 22 December 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Judging by your post, you lack the intelligence to understand as to what exactly defines a GOD that in the mythology of the people is clearly defined as having an extraterrestrial origin.

Considering that the Ancient Egyptians knew absolutely nothing of any place that might be something other than terrestrial, I'd love to see any real reference you can give that would indicate that the Egyptians thought their gods came from "elsewhere."

To my knowledge, just like other cultures of the time, they thought their gods were from here, given they created the "here."

Harte

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#114    LRW

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:44 AM

View PostHarte, on 23 December 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Considering that the Ancient Egyptians knew absolutely nothing of any place that might be something other than terrestrial,

*Snip*

To assume they did not know anything other than terrestrial is again an act of stupidity *Snip*

They knew much more than just the terrestrial, because they observed the night sky and its stars (the extraterrestrial). The platform that they built their religon around.


Posted Image

They also observed the sun (extraterrestrial) and attributed its qualities to their deities.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by kmt_sesh, 23 December 2012 - 06:48 AM.
Removed unnecessary personal remarks. Do not attack posters.


#115    DKO

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 04:04 AM

View PostLRW, on 23 December 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

*Snip*

To assume they did not know anything other than terrestrial is again an act of stupidity, following in the same type of garbage posting that kmt_sesh and Mangnoze indulge in.

They knew much more than just the terrestrial, because they observed the night sky and its stars (the extraterrestrial). The platform that they built their religon around.


Posted Image

They also observed the sun (extraterrestrial) and attributed its qualities to their deities.




They might not have realised all those stars were 'out there', maybe they thought of them as a sort of ceiling above us.

Edited by kmt_sesh, 23 December 2012 - 06:30 AM.

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#116    Likely Guy

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 04:11 AM

View PostLRW, on 23 December 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:


To assume they did not know anything other than terrestrial is again an act of stupidity, following in the same type of garbage posting that kmt_sesh and Mangnoze indulge in.

Of course the ancient Egyptians knew of the sun, the moon and the night time sky. That's extraterrestrial. But when someone says 'extraterrestrials', that invokes aliens (to the earth) which the proof thereof is entirely lacking.

Perhaps you could take some time to provide some proof of alien intervention?


#117    Harte

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:36 AM

View PostDKO, on 23 December 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

They might not have realised all those stars were 'out there', maybe they thought of them as a sort of ceiling above us.

That pretty much nails it, especially when you consider the stars were created by the same gods.

The first god arose from the formless earth itself - the first bit of earth to rise above water - the ben-ben.

No stories about gods "coming down from the sky" in ancient times.

Obviously, the Egyptians had no idea whatsoever that the little lights in the sky weren't hanging up there just out of reach.  

It is utterly ignorant to postulate that they had some idea of what they were looking at when they saw any heavenly body.

Almost as ignorant as thinking some posters here at UM have any idea what it is that they are claiming.

Harte

Edited by Harte, 23 December 2012 - 06:40 AM.

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#118    cladking

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:54 AM

View PostHarte, on 23 December 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

No stories about gods "coming down from the sky" in ancient times.

Really!!!  I couldn't count the number of times they spoke of descending gods and flying boats.

1970a. Wherewith shall N. be caused to fly?
1970b (N. 758-759). Then let there be brought to thee ------ ḥnw-boat, built by Mw-ḥn,
1970c. that thou mayest fly therewith, that thou mayest fly therewith,

Quote

Obviously, the Egyptians had no idea whatsoever that the little lights in the sky weren't hanging up there just out of reach.  

I believe this is nonsense.  These people didn't invent the calender by chance.  They needed
rto know the paths of the stars and to be able to accurately measure time.

Say what you will but there is some evidence for alien involvement.  No, I seriously doubt aliens
built the pyramids but there's better evidence for the existence of aliens than there is for most
of the quaint Egyptological assumptions.  "The past" is a very long time and suggesting there
couldn't have been any alien contact during those tens of thousands of years is pretty presump-
tuous.  Why do people jump all over orthodox assumptions as givens even when they're illogical
but dismiss everything else even when evidence exists?

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#119    kmt_sesh

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:01 AM

I remind all posters to remain civil when interacting with one another. Ridicule will not be tolerated. Repeated disruptive behavior will be dealt with.

Address a poster's argument and the points he or she is making—but do not attack the poster.

Thank you.

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#120    Harte

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:05 AM

View Postcladking, on 23 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Really!!!  I couldn't count the number of times they spoke of descending gods and flying boats.

1970a. Wherewith shall N. be caused to fly?
1970b (N. 758-759). Then let there be brought to thee ------ ḥnw-boat, built by Mw-ḥn,
1970c. that thou mayest fly therewith, that thou mayest fly therewith,
I should have said coming from the sky.  As in originating from.

I mean, yeah, the Sun sets, right?

View Postcladking, on 23 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

I believe this is nonsense.  These people didn't invent the calender by chance.  They needed
rto know the paths of the stars and to be able to accurately measure time.
Knowing these paths does not require knowing you are looking at another Sun or another Earth.  They are just lights to the Egyptians.

View Postcladking, on 23 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Say what you will but there is some evidence for alien involvement.
"What I will" say is, no there's not.

View Postcladking, on 23 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

"The past" is a very long time and suggesting there
couldn't have been any alien contact during those tens of thousands of years is pretty presump-
tuous.
While that is true, it is untrue that anybody has made the claim you stated.

What is claimed is that there exists not a shred of evidence for it.  Therefore, it is just folly to believe it.

View Postcladking, on 23 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Why do people jump all over orthodox assumptions as givens even when they're illogical
but dismiss everything else even when evidence exists?

Because the evidence doesn't exist.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum




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