118 replies to this topic

[Br Cornelius]

OverSword, on 23 January 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Again all of you who agree with the whole plague on the earth thing, why don't you kill yourself?  and don't give me the answer that Br's already provided.  Nobody can do more than thier own little part regardless of the big picture and I'm pretty sure that if every human that agrees with Sir David killed themselves we could cut the worlds population by 50%.

Flawed logic again. Individual efforts change society - but if you leave people behind who have not changed then you have achieved nothing. At best you buy a few years for those who would breed indescriminately. We are not individuals, we are communitees and the real changes must come at societal levels.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 23 January 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[Martyn1967]

Rlyeh, on 23 January 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

The only "destiny" we have is death.

Well said Sir!

[OverSword]

I know I'm just being fececious.

Don't get me wrong, regardless of Terra being on the verge of becoming uninhabitable or not I'm all about conservation and lead a very enviro-friendly life-style for someone who lives in a city.

I do not view humanity as a plague, for that would imply that it needs to be wiped out like we would try to do to any other plague.  The plague viewpoint is very imature, stupid and unrealistic.  Funny how 22 year old Hasina has a healthier and more realistic viewpoint of humanities place in nature than some of her older fellow UM'ers.

[Purifier]

OverSword, on 23 January 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Again all of you who agree with the whole plague on the earth thing, why don't you kill yourself?  and don't give me the answer that Br's already provided.  Nobody can do more than thier own little part regardless of the big picture and I'm pretty sure that if every human that agrees with Sir David killed themselves we could cut the worlds population by 50%.

That is just outright evil and immoral, OverSword. And I for one am just appalled at the thought of your suggestion, good sir. Everybody knows you gotta have a lottery first. Good God, man! Where's your sanity?

Edited by Purifier, 23 January 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Rolci]

Has Anybody seen Home? A documentary with stunning footages and quality that you can watch free on youtube. It's very relevant to this topic. http://www.youtube.c...s?feature=mv_sr

[Darkwind]

Unless we change the way we farm and use land. We are going to change the environment so much we are not going to be able to feed and have water for everyone we are feeding now. The population is going to drop one way or another and it is not going to be pretty.   We do everything for short term profit without a thought to whether it can be sustained for the future.  When I hear about people and companies using a resource until it is gone, I think what fools, once it is gone then what are you going to do.  When we fish out the seas and turn the land into a dust bowl McDonald's is not going to be an option.

[MaddoxHQ]

While I'm not sure that we can be seen as a plague.  We are one of the Earth's most destructive products currently produced.  But like Attenborough said, the Earth will balance us out.  And that's true, plants had been too successful and creating too much oxygen causing a giant wipe out.  We too stand the same chance of doing so.  I see little ability for us to change our behaviors en masse, as if I might choose not to, somebody will always choose to use the easier more expendable method of living.  With that the only future we have for this planet is a series of collapses and reinvention until by physical constraint we find ourselves a limit that we must balance our lives with what the world will provide.  An example is natural resources, they WILL be depleted, after they are we WILL have to deal with it.  What future that brings is not our choice, but the subconscious choice of life always exploiting whatever they can to live.

[Coffey]

When it comes to us being a "superior" being on this planet. My personal opinion is that because we have evolved to feel the way we do and be able to create etc in the way we do then we should start taking responsibility for the planet purely because we can.

We should view the fact we have evolved the way we are as a GIFT not take it for granted and act superior over all other creatures. When the whole of the human race realises this, then in my opinion we will really start to change things for the better.

Edited by Coffey, 23 January 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[Hasina]

Br Cornelius, on 23 January 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

How do you define success. Driving half the species to extinction - including ourselves probably -  is a strange definition of success. All based on a flawed understanding of our role in the world. Traditional peoples consider their function to be to maintain natures balance for the benefit of all of the biosphere, so I fundamentally disagree that we are destined to behave in the way we are doing - and we are very capable of making conscious choices to behave differently, as our fellow humans have chosen to do.

There is something terribly fatalistic about your attitude to our role in the planets evolution.

Br Cornelius

I would have to say the same about yours. Only when we reached consciousness did we 'maintain natures balance' then we discovered how to do things easier and some of us went with that while others didn't. Now which civilizations are still around? They were successful in their competition, nothing more, nothing less, pass on your genes and your ideas and you're successful.

I don't believe in 'destiny' so we're not 'destined' to act one way or another, we just act.

I agree, we can consciously choose to act and we do... Sometimes and only when it's more beneficial to us, usually, either as a country, an economy, a company, or an individual trying to get his 'word' out.

We define out of need, I think the simple fact that we're still around, can change the climate however we want (if we put our backs into it), and have exploded our population makes us a 'success', how you nitpick it is up to you. Is our current generation successful? Probably not since we usually fill our social networking sites with booze filled photos.

In summation since I'm rambling a hell of a lot, I view us neutrally, we're surviving, and I for one being a human support humans and their future survival, because we define things. We define success. If we weren't around, maybe someone else would define it, but if vanished now? Who's to take stock of what succeds in that post-human world? The trees? The air? The water? The animals? No one would write our eulogy but we are shamed into doing it for everything else including ourselves.

Edited by Hasina, 23 January 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[King Fluffs]

I agree with the gentleman wholeheartedly.

[OverSword]

Coffey, on 23 January 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

When it comes to us being a "superior" being on this planet. My personal opinion is that because we have evolved to feel the way we do and be able to create etc in the way we do then we should start taking responsibility for the planet purely because we can.

We should view the fact we have evolved the way we are as a GIFT not take it for granted and act superior over all other creatures. When the whole of the human race realises this, then in my opinion we will really start to change things for the better.

My view is that that is exactly what we are doing.  The majority of governments on the planet recognize that change in behaviour is necessary and slowly but surely are acting to bring that change in behaviour about.  Obviously it doesnt occur instantly and simultaneously.

[Oppono Astos]

Plague no - parasite yes

[sslama]

I agree with Attenborough also....we have become a cancer on this planet.  Our populations is growing without constraints and is showing all the characteristics of a cancer.  Growth, invasion and destuction

[Little Fish]

i thought the flagellants disappeared centuries ago.

[mastodon_2012]

I agree with Attenborough but unfortunately I do not believe that we will do anything to limit the population or reduce consumption. We are going to slam headfirst into a brick wall.