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State of the Union


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#16    AsteroidX

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:37 PM

Quote

I strongly suspect they ALL missed the part where the Pres. also said that the USA and the EU are going to enter into negotiations to create  a Free - Trade Union with the European Union. Yes??

So stealing a Putin line is considered leadership. Itleast have the balls to give credit to who is really proposing the free trade bloc. The USA is trying to jump on a ship that already sailed on that one.

The same thing is said at 15:11 in this video from July 2012.




#17    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:39 PM

I liked, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall."

As I said, Reagan was good at delivering lines.


#18    OverSword

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:42 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 13 February 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

The usual suspects here could find nothing in Pres. Obamas State of The Union speech to like... why am I not surprised? The Reps. LOST the popular vote, and they will never get over it :passifier:

I strongly suspect they ALL missed the part where the Pres. also said that the USA and the EU are going to enter into negotiations to create  a Free - Trade Union with the European Union. Yes??
Oh you mean like the one Clinton made with Canada and Mexico?  And how did that work out for the USA?  I'm sure Canada and Mexico think it worked great! :tu:

And I am not a republican sir, so don't even try to act like partismanship has anything to do with my attitude about our corporate owned government which rules byt the corporations, for the corporations.  Face it we are now, and have been for a few decades, the fascist states of America.


#19    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

The Canadians see it as good citizenship.  The Mexicans have profited extremely well.  In the end that means the US and Canada will do well too, as the immigration pressure has already disappeared and Mexico is prospering.  One is always better off if one's neighbors prosper.


#20    keithisco

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:47 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 13 February 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

If they are going to do that, why not include the rest of the Americas.

And then include Russia and Japan and Australia and New Zealand

By the time you get them in one might as well add ASEAN and India

Well I guess the Chinese will want in too -- but weren't they the problem motivating this?

Too simplistic... the idea is to trade between member Nations from similar backgrounds and with strong human rights in terms of "fair pay for a fair days work". Quite honestly, these nations coming together could happily exist and prosper without the rest of the world. Talent and innovation is in place to move the Western World forward (instead of the stagnation that it has suffered from for 50 years or more). Of course this would mean raising Tariffs much higher for Asian countries, but I am not really seeing a downside to this...

I truthfully will not buy goods from a "Sweatshop" environment (including the cheap Cinese shops in Spain), and really do not need to do so.


#21    Michelle

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:48 PM

If you don't agree with Obama's policies you can only be two things...a racist, a Republican or both.


#22    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

That stuff can be part of the treaty.  I think you are a little too puritanical about working conditions anyway.  If someone can improve their life by taking such a job, well, I would.


#23    OverSword

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 13 February 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

That stuff can be part of the treaty.  I think you are a little too puritanical about working conditions anyway.  If someone can improve their life by taking such a job, well, I would.
I hate to be the one to point this out, but you have live in servants, so probably you speak from an entirely theoretical point of view, as in theoretically if the world economy totaly collapsed you may need to work in a sweat shop.  In reality chances are you own one?  Sorry if I'm out of line, and I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm truly not, but it's easy for a rich man to claim to know how cold it is in the slums during winter, while he sits next to a marble fire place.


#24    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:01 PM

That statement was outrageous; you have no idea what I went through in my life.  And I don't have servants.  I have family who take care of their elderly and sick parents.


#25    Corp

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:05 PM

I thought the speech was very well delivered. It touched on a lot of good topics and brought up a number of good ideas. Now how these ideas are attempted and if any results will be seen is a completely different matter, but Obama did speak very well. Did seem to be rather combative though with him calling out the GOP on some of their policies. Some of the stuff needed to be called out, such as the idea that the military budget should never ever be lowered, but he seemed to be ready to take the gloves off and I don't see how that will help things get done.

Didn't seem much of the rebutal, though how Rubio would sway from time to time I kept waiting for him to break out into song. :P He didn't seem as at ease and I found it odd that he mentioned Bush when Obama didn't.

In any case the fall out will likely hold no surprises. Those who like Obama will praise the speech without asking just how these promises will be fulfilled and those who hate Obama with an unholy passion will continue to hate him no matter what he does. Such is the way with politics.

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#26    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:07 PM

The speech was okay although partisan while complaining about partisanship.  What people say is not nearly as important as what they do, so we will see.


#27    keithisco

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

View PostOverSword, on 13 February 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

I hate to be the one to point this out, but you have live in servants, so probably you speak from an entirely theoretical point of view, as in theoretically if the world economy totaly collapsed you may need to work in a sweat shop.  In reality chances are you own one?  Sorry if I'm out of line, and I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm truly not, but it's easy for a rich man to claim to know how cold it is in the slums during winter, while he sits next to a marble fire place.

Way too harsh OverSword. some people might consider me to be rich but I would never stoop so low as to run a sweatshop... I live comfortably, not ostentatiously, probably similar to Frank Merton.


#28    OverSword

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 13 February 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

That statement was outrageous; you have no idea what I went through in my life.  And I don't have servants.  I have family who take care of their elderly and sick parents.
I apologize, and may have some slight idea, as I am very close with several and have been acquainted with many, many refugees from your country as well as Cambodia and Laos.  I thought you had servants because in another thread you made a reference to your cook and her husband who live with you, and I know that these days there are prosperous people in Veitnam.  It is also pretty obvious that you are an educated individual which was no doubt rare for any but the very elite after the North won the war.


#29    Frank Merton

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:13 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 13 February 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Too simplistic... the idea is to trade between member Nations from similar backgrounds and with strong human rights in terms of "fair pay for a fair days work". Quite honestly, these nations coming together could happily exist and prosper without the rest of the world. Talent and innovation is in place to move the Western World forward (instead of the stagnation that it has suffered from for 50 years or more). Of course this would mean raising Tariffs much higher for Asian countries, but I am not really seeing a downside to this...
I had meant to let this pass, but now I think I will address it.  What I see in a trade agreement between the US and Europe is a rich man's club designed to stay rich and keep others out.  The European agricultural policy is the real thing to complain of here, not Spanish sweatshops.


#30    OverSword

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 13 February 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

I had meant to let this pass, but now I think I will address it.  What I see in a trade agreement between the US and Europe is a rich man's club designed to stay rich and keep others out.  The European agricultural policy is the real thing to complain of here, not Spanish sweatshops.
That is pretty much what happened after NAFTA was signed.  The rich got richer and my job (whole industry actually) of 20 years, got shipped to Canada.  Big surprise.

Edited by OverSword, 13 February 2013 - 05:17 PM.





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