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[Merged] Proof of Heaven


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#31    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:35 PM

View Postfailturner25, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

I dream of the deceased and my dead dogs sometimes without seeing anyone else, does that mean I was in heaven?

Anyway, how do we know he wasn't lying, lying is pretty easy to do nowadays, people fall for all sort of things.

He certainly wasn't lying about what happened to his brain to put him in the coma and his miraculous recovery from it. He certainly didn't plan out this elaborate hoax for months and then suddenly fall ill with a deadly disease that rendered him in a coma for a week. A disease he should never have recovered from, just so, "if" he miraculously survived he could pull of an elaborate hoax about what happened.

A guy who taught neurosurgery at Harvard for 17 years and no longer believed in God and then suddenly and inexplicably awakens from a coma doesn't usually develop an incredibly detailed and elaborate hoax about things that happened, especially when he knew that sharing his experiences would surely mean he would be laughed at and ridiculed by the vast majority of his peers.


#32    jugoso

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:46 PM

You may find this interesting. It´s a great talk, related to your topic and is very powerful and thought-provoking.

http://www.ted.com/t...of_insight.html

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Free your mind and you ass will follow.
The kingdom of heaven is within"
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#33    Super-Fly

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:50 PM

Yeah, sounds legit....

Back to making chess pieces from unicorn bones.

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#34    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 10 October 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

In the fall of 2008, however, after seven days in a coma during which the human part of my brain, the neocortex, was inactivated, I experienced something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death.
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My 'heaven' is the promise of merging with God(?) through the process of Nirvana. It is what I have come to realize after my last resurrection and doing a particular form of Siddha Yoga. There are times, however, when I go through the Sauron Complex (if one thinks of continuing or having a body again or reincarnating as being the actual Ring of Power, instead of plunging one's essense in the fires of Mount Doom, if you will). Merging is not as easy as one thinks, especially when good things are beginning to happen again. I tend to sweep the  harshness of my life under the carpet and rationalize  because the mind is capricious that way. Unfornately (or fortunately, depending one's state of mind) bad luck usually comes to remind me to enter 'heaven.'

"Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement -- even the very wise cannot see all ends." GANDALF

#35    Bling

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 10 October 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:


And you "know" this, why exactly?

I didn't say I 'know' this, I was offering my opinion to the subject. One man's unproven experience does not give proof of heaven.


#36    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:50 PM

View Postjugoso, on 10 October 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

You may find this interesting. It´s a great talk, related to your topic and is very powerful and thought-provoking.

http://www.ted.com/t...of_insight.html

I saw that a couple years ago after suffering a stroke myself and I have a copy on my hard drive. She was given a glimpse but I'm not sure if she understands what she was given. If she believes all that was a result of her "right brain" only, then she has yet to fully grasp what she has experienced. But I have never followed up on her to see if she was able to understand it fully, so I don't know.

It's definitely a moving and wonderful story and I hope that she is able to find what her insights are pointing her to.


#37    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:51 PM

I completely agree with you, Bling. It's a personal journey, besides. Everyone will have a chance to enter or not enter 'heaven.'

"Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement -- even the very wise cannot see all ends." GANDALF

#38    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:53 PM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 10 October 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

It's definitely a moving and wonderful story and I hope that she is able to find what her insights are pointing her to.
Well put, Shabd Mystic. One still has to piece together the puzzle...in my experience.

Edited by braveone2u, 10 October 2012 - 07:54 PM.

"Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement -- even the very wise cannot see all ends." GANDALF

#39    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:02 PM

View PostBling, on 10 October 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I didn't say I 'know' this, I was offering my opinion to the subject. One man's unproven experience does not give proof of heaven.

True. Proof can only be given to an individual. And that individual can never "prove" anything, one way or another, to anyone else. Only one who has "gone to heaven" and can go back any time he wants to can have the proof. And only one who can do this, and who as a result obtains the power to move mountains (and so much more), and who becomes "one with God," can ever "know." Meanwhile the rest of the world can just throw around their opinions, one way or another.

This doctor was given a "glimpse." A powerful glimpse, but still no more than a glimpse. He is merely at the starting point. (But after reading through his site I see that he understands that and has begun a meditation program in hopes of going well past this.) When he does finally manage to get absolute proof, he still will be unable to "prove" anything to anybody. Despite Newsweek's poor choice of a headline, heaven is something that can never be proven to "other people." Only those who go there can have proof, and this doctor, despite what he might believe, still has a very long way to go.


#40    scowl

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:32 PM

If certain people have experienced heaven, why did they come back here? I guess it wasn't so great after all.


#41    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:17 PM

View Postscowl, on 10 October 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

If certain people have experienced heaven, why did they come back here? I guess it wasn't so great after all.
In my situation, it's not about that. I wasn't ready to accept the destruction of my unique "awareness," not just my earthly consciousness. And it, the search for the reason why I should enter Nirvana, has been my goal in my current existence. I found that reason recently, and yet, the pull (of coming back to this world) is very strong, especially when good things are being to happen to me again. Peace.

Edited by braveone2u, 10 October 2012 - 10:20 PM.

"Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement -- even the very wise cannot see all ends." GANDALF

#42    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:18 PM

View Postscowl, on 10 October 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

If certain people have experienced heaven, why did they come back here? I guess it wasn't so great after all.

It is really funny to see how some others see all this. They "come back here" because they have no other choice. You'd understand that if you ever bothered to read any of the hundreds of reported, and closely studied, cases of NDE or mystics.

But who'd want to do that when you can instead just make a snide remark on an Internet message board to appear like you might actually understand more than the "fools" who have studied this or who actually have first-hand experience with this?  :tu:



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Edited by Shabd Mystic, 10 October 2012 - 10:19 PM.


#43    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:25 PM

In a way, it's one of the reasons why I enjoy The Lord of the Rings epic. Having a life is epic.

"Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement -- even the very wise cannot see all ends." GANDALF

#44    preacherman76

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:26 PM

Certainly his experiance doesnt prove anything. However, being this guy seems to be credible his eye witness testimony holds water. Men have been convicted for life, or even put to death cause of the eyewitness accounts of less credible men. I for one cant just dismiss what he said. Especialy considering the extrodinary circumstance he found himself in. NTM how his story is similar to others who have had the same experiance. Including 4 to 5 % of folks who have suffered heart attacks.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#45    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:12 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 10 October 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Certainly his experiance doesnt prove anything. However, being this guy seems to be credible his eye witness testimony holds water. Men have been convicted for life, or even put to death cause of the eyewitness accounts of less credible men. I for one cant just dismiss what he said. Especialy considering the extrodinary circumstance he found himself in. NTM how his story is similar to others who have had the same experiance. Including 4 to 5 % of folks who have suffered heart attacks.

And he is just the tip of a huge iceberg. The PDF I linked to talks about studies of thousands more like him, all who belonged to many different religions and many who were Atheists before it happened.


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