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Weidner on NASA


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#46    mrbusdriver

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 03:37 PM

ok, here's what I've seen so far

You can skip the first 16 minutes...it's just irrelevant chit chat, setting up the CT "mood". "The Shining" being about his travails working for NASA etc...

He expresses incredulity about landing and taking off from "someplace you've never been". It's not like we hadn't put unmanned landers there, sent orbiters to study the environment and such. It's just science and engineering, which this guy is (rightly) assuming his audience has no familiarity with. He speaks from ignorance.

He isn't aware that Neil, along with the other crewmwmbers, HAVE done numerous interviews and public appearances since their famous flight. Again, he hasn't done his homework and assumes his audience hasn't either.

26 minutes in, he talks about images of the Earth taken while they were on the surface. Apollo 11 took no such images, and there are only a handful of such photos from all the missions. They were on the Moon, so it's natural that the vast majority of the photos were of the surface and activities thereon.

I'm not impressed with this guy's knowledge base. He makes elementary mistakes and misinterpretations.


#47    mrbusdriver

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 05:44 PM

Continuing on...

They talk about the "lost" tapes. Not lost, and we still have all the footage, just not the originals which were of somewhat better quality, and were reused on later missions. No mystery here.

The Jim Oberg book issue...folks decided the debunking project wasn't worth the cost. Simple as that.

The "didn't have the technology" thing. This is actually taken from the post- Apollo-1 hearings, the investigator in question never claimed anything like "we can't get to the Moon". Ever. And it wasn't a one person car/train wreck...his family was with him.

Jesse Evenura. 2012, KDEN nonsense.

Evidence of 400 year "presence" on the Moon.

"Advanced technology", invented by Germany, developed by US. Kinda right on this one, at least for rocket science.

Footage of LM takeoff...they are incredulous about this, no remote control capability in the 60s they say.

"Photo" of Ed Mitchell and Al Shepard on the Moon during Al's golf shot. There might be a TV clip, but no photo exists. There's also a "photoshopped" rendition created for Al Shepard's book.

Pictures of large structures on the Moon. "Huge headlines" in the Washinton Post, Seattle Times, and New York Times stating this. ("you can research this yourself"...)

Who photographed Neil, descending the ladder I am assuming. The host really is playing to the CT crowd here, and the author claims it was star seeker cameras (?) which may have done it. No mention (or apparent awareness) of the MESA mounted TV camera.

The "LM thing", covered in gold "aluminum foil", with a "3000lb rover", and single thruster making a controlled landing, again with the "someplace weve never been, alien environment" stuff. Car battery powered spacesuits, the usual +/- 250F misunderstandings, the false "baking oven" analogy, deadly radiation...they do not understand anything about spaceship construction, thermodynamics, or, seemingly, physics.

Why not use Hubble to see landing sites. Or put together a "$15 million" mission that can photograph the sites (his cost numbers there).

Then the waving flag. We're about at the 56 minute point here, after this, it degenerates into all manner of conspiracy stuff, showing there isn't a CT these guys won't see as credible, if not rock solid.

An unimpressive, and completely unsubstantiated, set of claims. They don't understand any of the science, and simply argue from incredulity, presuming the readers' ignorance on such matters. I see nothing of value in the discussion, except perhaps as a starting point for a discussion of how spaceflight really works, vs what "common sense" would tell us.


#48    MID

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:22 PM

View Postgort., on 22 May 2011 - 12:52 AM, said:

Gee,quite the detective there Phil.As you well know,I don't take the bait for the games played with the regulars on that forum,nor will I do so here.Not that it matters,but I will set the record straight for you.I find the zeal of true Believers far more interesting than the whole hoax debate on diverse forums.I had an interest in it years ago,and only recently read over the moon threads on the internet.I joined up at Icke's forum to join in on the megathread,and after it was ranted I started a thread laying out the parameters of discourse,hoping it would be civil and for those that wanted to go round and round in circles debating,they were welcome to do so,but I stated clearly I was interested in the larger picture and wanted to prompt discussion in other aspects of the Space Race without the constant hassle of flamebaiters.It went smoothly for a couple of months until it was derailed and merged into the megathread so I started another one.Again it was derailed and merged.So I spent time going over many forums and saw the same pattern,and found it very interesting how insecure Believers are when it comes to being challenged in their fixed beliefs.I liked how Turbo here was handling the attacks from the gang over here,and wanted to see if it were possible to join in the fray,minus the little snide and condescending behavior that is rampant at the other forum.I bring this up only because you mentioned another forum.Of course,the Believers got ruffled quickly,and saw no need to participate in those that use circular logic and emotionally driven rants to express their views.And even denial when their views are shown to be wrong.I started several threads over at Icke's to see if one would be immune from the few vile and rabid Believers over thee.Nope.Tey were all moved,merged,and submerged in a most expedient fashion.Yet,the moon poll threads and moon threads that weren't bringing up serious issues remain in any category they were placed in.Here I see the mods condescending behavior in chiding Turbo at every turn instead of discussing and debating matters,and a ringleader that is idolized.Wall of text being cool?No,as I told you on the other forum I do it intentionally to dissuade the zealous Believers in going into multiquoting overdrive and spinning off on tangents,and personal attacks.Simple as that.Whether one believes in the Apollo Lunar Landings or not,it is painfully clear that the most ardent Believers lack the most basic crtical thinking faculites,and parrot the official version of history,and deny any and all contradictions and anomalies.



And now.

You were, finally, going to address what you've been told about that film....


Or perhaps that's 'taking bait' as well???

;)

Edited by MID, 22 May 2011 - 07:24 PM.


#49    Philthy

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 04:11 AM

Gee,quite the detective there Phil. As you well know,I don't take the bait for the games played with the regulars on that forum,nor will I do so here.

No detective work is or was required, you purposely post walls of text to what end, I've not a clue. Only you know the reason.
No one ever "baited" you, you baited yourself by claiming some unprovable, undocumented hoax theory.
The only "game playing was done by the HB's, as usual.


Not that it matters,but I will set the record straight for you.I find the zeal of true Believers far more interesting than the whole hoax debate on diverse forums.

The zeal comblatantbIgnaceigronace of wparticulararticlar HB'er is claiming. Every and all HB claims have been debunkpr ovend proven wrong for years, if not decades.

I had an interest in it years ago,and only recently read over the moon threads on the internet.I joined up at Icke's forum to join in on the megathread,and after it was ranted I started a thread laying out the parameters of discourse,hoping it would be civil and for those that wanted to go round and round in circles debating,they were welcome to do so,but I stated clearly I was interested in the larger picture and wanted to prompt discussion in other aspects of the Space Race without the constant hassle of flamebaiters.

And I remember that, I'd hoped for the same thing, but, yet again, the HB'ers derailed it by all the off topic, name calling rants they always resort too.

It went smoothly for a couple of months until it was derailed and merged into the megathread so I started another one.

I didn't like that much either, but, I nor you am a Mod there, not our call.

Again it was derailed and merged.So I spent time going over many forums and saw the same pattern,and found it very interesting how insecure Believers are when it comes to being challenged in their fixed beliefs.

As stated above, it's not that knowing the Apollo landings are fact, it's more sheer frustration that the most documented very easily provable event in history is called into question. Beyound a shadow of any doubt, man has landed on the moon.

I liked how Turbo here was handling the attacks from the gang over here,and wanted to see if it were possible to join in the fray,minus the little snide and condescending behavior that is rampant at the other forum.

While Turbo is persistent, he still hasn't shown any proof of hpr ovenims. In fact he's proven to be "fact proof."

I bring this up only because you mentioned another forum.

Yes, I did, maybe I shouldn't have, but I did. Water under the bridge.

Of course,the Believers got ruffled quickly,and saw no need to participate in those that use circular logic and emotionally driven rants to express their views.And even denial when their views are shown to be wrong.

Very true, the HB's and their unprovable claims do seem to be circular.

I started several threads over at Icke's to see if one would be immune from the few vile and rabid Believers over thee.Nope.Tey were all moved,merged,and submerged in a most expedient fashion.Yet,the moon poll threads and moon threads that weren't bringing up serious issues remain in any category they were placed in.Here I see the mods condescending behavior in chiding Turbo at every turn instead of discussing and debating matters,and a ringleader that is idolized.

Gee, why do you suppose that topics on the very same topic get merged? It must be a conspires!!

Wall of text being cool?No,as I told you on the other forum I do it intentionally to dissuade the zealous Believers in going into multiquoting overdrive and spinning off on tangents,and personal attacks.

I must have missed your wall text excuse. I, and most others don't take the time to go through it. For this I resorted to NotePad, so I could make some sort of order of the wall, and even then, it's not easy. I don't do personal attacks, I do, however call attention too, at times, to claims that just aren't real, or provable.


Simple as that.Whether one believes in the Apollo Lunar Landings or not,it is painfully clear that the most ardent Believers lack the most basic crtical thinking faculites,and parrot the official version of history,and deny any and all contradictions and anomalies.

I know, I know, the winners write the history books. In this case, the winners, NASA, actually did what they said they did. The people that point out that the Apollo landings are real, provable fact in the face of blantent igornace, and keep they're cool as much as they do, is admirable.


Not sure if my method of answering this is OK, but, here it is, with apologies.

Phil


#50    MID

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 11:13 PM

View Postgort., on 22 May 2011 - 12:52 AM, said:

I find the zeal of true Believers far more interesting than the whole hoax debate on diverse forums.

You actually need to be addressing that film, which you haven't.  But there's news for you:

There are people who have knowledge, and there are HBs.
People who attempt to teach about the facts aren't believers.  They know something.


Now, let's get back to addressing that film.
The Moon  hoax thread is elsewhere.


#51    DONTEATUS

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:25 AM

Is there any reason this is still going on?

This is a Work in Progress!

#52    shaddow134

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:37 AM

View Postali smack, on 15 May 2011 - 11:17 AM, said:

The Moon Landing was obviously real,as there is tons of evidence.
There's not 1 shred of evidence regarding it been faked.

And as for Kubrick Conspriacy.What nonsense.
He simply would have not had the time to do it.
The evidence regarding the faking of the moon landings may indeed be questionable.But i have always found Neil Armstrongs refusal to talk publicly about the moon landings worrying...

Edited by shaddow134, 24 May 2011 - 12:44 AM.

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#53    mrbusdriver

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:56 AM

I reckon you missed the network special with him. Or his appearance with his crew at the National EAA fly in. Or the talk last summer on the 40th anniversary.
Mr Armstrong isn't a "public" guy, and never believed the first man on the Moon story should be about him. He's humble, and retired. That he doesn't behave as you wish is evidence of nothing.

Now, back to the Weidner video?


#54    MID

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 01:44 AM

View Postshaddow134, on 24 May 2011 - 12:37 AM, said:

The evidence regarding the faking of the moon landings may indeed be questionable.But i have always found Neil Armstrongs refusal to talk publicly about the moon landings worrying...



What Mr. B said...


And...it's a different thread you're looking for.


#55    mrbusdriver

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:22 AM

View PostOve, on 18 May 2011 - 07:01 PM, said:

KuBrick's Odyssey



The "Dark Side of the Moon" (mockumentary) also claims that Kubrick helped the USA fake the moon landings

http://en.wikipedia....n_(mockumentary)

The clip depends on this nebulous and completely unsupported claim that Kubrick made a deal with NASA/US government to create this footage. There's only suggestion and innuendo, but no facts.
What of the hundreds of thousands who worked diligently to design and create the hardware which would fly men to the Moon, those who trained the crews, and supported the missions real time? They were real people, with real stories to tell.


#56    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:50 AM

View Postmrbusdriver, on 24 May 2011 - 04:22 AM, said:

What of the hundreds of thousands who worked diligently to design and create the hardware which would fly men to the Moon, those who trained the crews, and supported the missions real time? They were real people, with real stories to tell.
And coming at it from the opposite direction - Kubrick could not have made this film alone (indeed he didn't even do the special effects for 2001... Doug Trumbull did). There would have been dozens or hundreds of people involved. If we are talking about Kubrick being involved we are talking about NASA going outside of the safety of government people and organisations and trusting itself to Hollywood ([sarcasm]and we know how much Hollywood was in love with the US Government, after all I'm sure they were quick to forgive the witch hunts of the McCarthy era and so many actors and actresses were falling over themselves to praise the war in Vietnam[/sarcasm]). Given this I have to ask, where are the whistle-blowers?

Even if the whole moon hoax conspiracy was logical, it doesn't seem to me that handing over this sort of responsibility to Hollywood makes any kind of sense.

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#57    MID

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 10:47 PM

View Postshaddow134, on 24 May 2011 - 12:37 AM, said:

But i have always found Neil Armstrongs refusal to talk publicly about the moon landings worrying...


I have often wondered about where this strange mythology about Neil Armstrong originated.
Neil has done thousands of speaking engagements.  He speaks publically about the Apollo program (with an inimitable eloquence), spaceflight, manned exploration, and engineering.

Always has, and undoubtedly always will.

Maybe it's just that people generally cannot come to grips with a man of genuine class and humility, a man who considers a man's accomplishments much more important than the man himself, and a man who prefers not to be in the limelight nor to have any special treatment because of his status.

Hard to say...
But, Neil has never refused to speak publically.  He has spoken most eloquently for the crew of Apollo 11 since July of 1969.

Edited by MID, 24 May 2011 - 10:47 PM.


#58    postbaguk

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 12:32 AM

View Postgort., on 22 May 2011 - 12:52 AM, said:

As you well know,I don't take the bait for the games played with the regulars on that forum,nor will I do so here.

<snip>

Gort

Can you address the issues I raised in the 4th post of this thread?

Cheers





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