4705 replies to this topic

[psyche101]

TheMcGuffin, on 18 June 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Here's the guy I've been picking on a lot lately: Major Hector "There is Nothing to Hide" Quintanilla.

I think he believed his own explanations, even if many did not. So many military saw the UFO phenomena as a real waste of military time, and Quintanilla outlined this was his conviction as well in his report, UFO's an Air Force Dilemma, in it he goes on o say:




THE AIR FORCE UFO REGULATION
It’s quite apparent that the Pentagon bought the proposal, and the UFO program continued under the auspices of the Air Technical Intelligence Center  (ATIC). It amazes me, but it doesn’t surprise me, that some people just don’t like to rock the boat. Back when the program started, there was a valid reason for studying UFO’s within an intelligence agency. At the beginning, there was sincere concern that  maybe a foreign power was penetrating our air space with a new and superior weapons system designed as a disc or saucer. SIGN, GRUDGE, THE SCIENTIFIC PANEL, and SPECIAL REPORT NUMBER 14, all concluded that the intelligence community’s basic concern was not valid. The Soviets were not penetrating our air space with a new aerodynamic configuration; hell, they were just as confused about the UFO phenomena as we were. I’m sure they were looking to us for a solution to this problem. It should have been apparent  to many people then, that the UFO program didn’t belong in intelligence channels


LINK


It sounds more like he was just annoyed that taxpayer money was being "wasted" (In his opinion) on what he saw as a non military project. I think he was a nothing to hide fellow, he did not hide that he felt the entire thing was a waste of time. One has to wonder how such men were selected for these positions?

Edited by psyche101, 19 June 2012 - 12:01 AM.

[TheMcGuffin]

psyche101, on 19 June 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

I think he believed his own explanations, even if many did not. So many military saw the UFO phenomena as a real waste of military time, and Quintanilla outlined this was his conviction as well in his report, UFO's an Air Force Dilemma, in it he goes on o say:

It sounds more like he was just annoyed that taxpayer money was being "wasted" (In his opinion) on what he saw as a non military project. I think he was a nothing to hide fellow, he did not hide that he felt the entire thing was a waste of time. One has to wonder how such men were selected for these positions?

I'm not even sure that all the "explanations" were really his, since some of them seem to have been written into the records after the fact.  They were part of a PR exercise, the type of stuff always handed out to the press or to people like Phil Klass, who did not seem aware that they contradicted all the internal documents.  Those were kept classified at the time and many of them still are, but the pattern is clear from the available records.

What if I were to say that there were real UFO briefings for interested people in the military that did not match the type of information being given out to the media and the public?

[psyche101]

TheMcGuffin, on 19 June 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

I'm not even sure that all the "explanations" were really his, since some of them seem to have been written into the records after the fact.  They were part of a PR exercise, the type of stuff always handed out to the press or to people like Phil Klass, who did not seem aware that they contradicted all the internal documents.  Those were kept classified at the time and many of them still are, but the pattern is clear from the available records.

You would be right there, I am sure there was some outside influence with regards to explanations. And I would agree, I think Major Quintanila thought this as well, and was perhaps annoyed with his "useless" position. It seems reasonable to consider that probably contributed to his lack lustre explanations.

TheMcGuffin, on 19 June 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

What if I were to say that there were real UFO briefings for interested people in the military that did not match the type of information being given out to the media and the public?

I would not be surprised, the Twinning memo indicates that important people were interested, I just wonder why those with an interest and any expertise were not in these positions such as Quintanilla. Just positions that would scrutinise Quintanila almost like he was set up for a fall.

[TheMcGuffin]

psyche101, on 19 June 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:

You would be right there, I am sure there was some outside influence with regards to explanations. And I would agree, I think Major Quintanila thought this as well, and was perhaps annoyed with his "useless" position. It seems reasonable to consider that probably contributed to his lack lustre explanations.



I would not be surprised, the Twinning memo indicates that important people were interested, I just wonder why those with an interest and any expertise were not in these positions such as Quintanilla. Just positions that would scrutinise Quintanila almost like he was set up for a fall.

I don't think he was getting the really good cases, the type of things that were so highly classified that they didn't get to Blue Book, but there were internal briefings and discussions about them.

There are cases that come up on here from time to time that I would really like to say more about, and I almost bring myself to do it but I always stop myself.  There are some people who have spoken publicly about these over the years, and I feel like saying "Yes, this person is right.  I know it because I also saw the evidence a long time ago.  It's true."

Not with every UFO case, of course, but there I some of them that I really feel like saying that, but I just can't bring myself to go that far.

[booNyzarC]

TheMcGuffin, on 19 June 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

There are some people who have spoken publicly about these over the years, and I feel like saying "Yes, this person is right.  I know it because I also saw the evidence a long time ago.  It's true."

Not with every UFO case, of course, but there I some of them that I really feel like saying that, but I just can't bring myself to go that far.

Yeah, but that really isn't very really convincing.  I'm sure that you'd have lots of people who are wowed by such things, but aside from the credulous you probably won't find many other takers.

Honestly, do you think people are going to say "Oh, TheMcGuffin says it was real, so it must have been real!?!?"  Seriously?  Produce some evidence and you'll draw some valid attention.

Until then you'll just have the credulous patting your back.  And there will be plenty who are ready to bounce upon your knee listening to the old stories.  Enjoy the worthless fandom while it lasts.

Cheers.

[psyche101]

TheMcGuffin, on 19 June 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

I don't think he was getting the really good cases, the type of things that were so highly classified that they didn't get to Blue Book, but there were internal briefings and discussions about them.

There are cases that come up on here from time to time that I would really like to say more about, and I almost bring myself to do it but I always stop myself.  There are some people who have spoken publicly about these over the years, and I feel like saying "Yes, this person is right.  I know it because I also saw the evidence a long time ago.  It's true."

Not with every UFO case, of course, but there I some of them that I really feel like saying that, but I just can't bring myself to go that far.

Yes, I understand it's a big call, and very hard to back, so I would probably act in the same manner put in that position,
I always thought Portage County to be one of the real difficult cases, Quintanilla had a look at it, gave a terrible explanation, and that seems to be the be all end all of it, except for the people involved, who suffered for some time afterwards. Quintanilla I find a bit of a mystery too, he seems a bit of a round peg in a square hole with the UFO stuff, maybe of methodology was why he was selected? His report indicates a methodical man who followed the processes I feel. Maybe that is what Blue Book wanted?

[TheMcGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 19 June 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Yeah, but that really isn't very really convincing.  I'm sure that you'd have lots of people who are wowed by such things, but aside from the credulous you probably won't find many other takers.

Honestly, do you think people are going to say "Oh, TheMcGuffin says it was real, so it must have been real!?!?"  Seriously?  Produce some evidence and you'll draw some valid attention.

Until then you'll just have the credulous patting your back.  And there will be plenty who are ready to bounce upon your knee listening to the old stories.  Enjoy the worthless fandom while it lasts.

Cheers.

You don't know me, Boon, for you are quite harsh in your judgments.  The last thing I want is to do a press conference, get on TV, write a book or get my 15 minutes of fame.  None of that interests me in the slightest.  It never has.

Understand one thing about me, Boon, I spent a lifetime learning to be a certain way.  My father and grandfather were Army officers, and my family has a military tradition going back a long time.

There are many things I WANT to say, really would like to talk about, but I simply can't do it.  That's all there is to it.  I can't do it, no matter how much I'd like to.  Sometimes I'm really tempted though.

[TheMcGuffin]

psyche101, on 19 June 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

Yes, I understand it's a big call, and very hard to back, so I would probably act in the same manner put in that position,
I always thought Portage County to be one of the real difficult cases, Quintanilla had a look at it, gave a terrible explanation, and that seems to be the be all end all of it, except for the people involved, who suffered for some time afterwards. Quintanilla I find a bit of a mystery too, he seems a bit of a round peg in a square hole with the UFO stuff, maybe of methodology was why he was selected? His report indicates a methodical man who followed the processes I feel. Maybe that is what Blue Book wanted?

My impression is that he was a very career-minded, "go along and get along" guy, who wasn't going to rock the boat.  Not an original thinker, not even particularly imaginative, but a competent middle manager who followed instructions.  That's why he lasted in that Blue Book job longer than any other director.  He was not like Edward Ruppelt, who wrote a book and told too many tales out of school, or even Col. Robert Friend, who talked about cases that he simply couldn't explain and later appeared in UFO documentaries and TV programs, talking about contacts with aliens and things like that.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

psyche101, on 18 June 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

Didn't astronauts test lunar landers on earth?

And this one was certainly tested on earth




And with Lonnie Zamoras description:

Zamora struggled to get his car up the steep hill. Successful on the third attempt, he noted no further noise. For the next 10–15 seconds he proceeded west, looking for the shack whose precise location he did not recall. It was then that he noticed a shiny object, "to south about 150 to 200 yards", that at first he took to be an "overturned white car ... up on radiator or on trunk", with two people standing close to it, one of whom seemed to notice him with some surprise and gave a start. The shiny object was "like aluminum — it was whitish against the mesa background, but not chrome", and shaped like a letter "O". Having stopped for a couple of seconds, Zamora approached in his car meaning to help.



Why is it impossible the "overturned car" could not be this?






I am not saying this is the answer, but it does not seem an outlandish hypothesis, I can see where it would come from. It does have three legs as described, powered by rockets, which fits the description, and could be considered egg shaped from certain perspectives, but not up and down wise, rather a side to side view.

because i very much doubt they could possibly fly in earth gravity.  And if they did, they'd surely do it somewhre nice and private, on all that government owned land there is. Not necessarily for secrecy, like with military experiments, but just so that they could do it in a controlled environment. Like with the Lunar Lander test vehicles, they didn't try to fly the Landers themselves,

Quote

To allow astronauts to learn lunar landing techniques, NASA contracted Bell Aerosystems in 1964 to build the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle (LLRV), which used a gimbal-mounted vertical jet engine to counter 5/6 of its weight to simulate the Moon's gravity, in addition to its own hydrogen peroxide thrusters to simulate the LM's descent engine and attitude control. Successful testing of two LLRV prototypes at the Dryden Flight Research Center led in 1966 to three production Lunar Landing Training Vehicles (LLTV) which along with the LLRV's were used to train the astronauts at the Houston Manned Spacecraft Center. This aircraft actually proved fairly dangerous to fly, as three of the five were destroyed in crashes. It was equipped with a rocket-powered ejection seat, so in each case the pilot survived, including the first man to walk on the Moon, Neil Armstrong.^[8]

http://en.wikipedia....ronaut_training
i very much doubt that they'd have ever been allowed outside the confines of Houston or Edwards AFB, and very wisely too. It'd be just the same with any unmanned probe, in fact, even more so, since they weren't designed to be "flown" as such, just to carry out a pre-programmed mission profile.

[quillius]

psyche101, on 19 June 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

Yes, I understand it's a big call, and very hard to back, so I would probably act in the same manner put in that position,
I always thought Portage County to be one of the real difficult cases, Quintanilla had a look at it, gave a terrible explanation, and that seems to be the be all end all of it, except for the people involved, who suffered for some time afterwards. Quintanilla I find a bit of a mystery too, he seems a bit of a round peg in a square hole with the UFO stuff, maybe of methodology was why he was selected? His report indicates a methodical man who followed the processes I feel. Maybe that is what Blue Book wanted?

Hey Psyche,

I think you make a very valid observation here as to the why Quintanilla was selected....it certainly makes some sense IMO.
Although to say he was methodical may be a stretch, I say this simply because he never showed this charachteristic from what I have seen/read so far.

You mention Portage County, a prime example of a very lacklustre effort in investigating and an even worse 'explanation', has got me thinking though, the explanation was so ludicrous, is it possible that this was the intention?

[zoser]

psyche101, on 18 June 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Is that not what I offered? My post went into detail as to why those particular cases are not worth the time to read them, particularly the Buzz Aldrin example. I am hoping to bump you up to the "next level" whereby you at least Google something before you post it. Those examples were woeful and particularly so when you put them next yo your OP, which was an interesting case. Why did you not stick with your OP? It is unusual to see the OP go off topic on their own topic.
Sheesh, the least you could have done is say thanks for saving you all that leg work on those cases in one hit! You do not seem fond of the research aspect, so this should have been a help to you, surely you are pleased to know about aspects like the Buzz Aldrin case, which is and always has been considered a pathetic lie? Or do you enjoy barking up trees?

It's fair to say that we don't think alike.  Makes the forum lively I suppose.

[quillius]

zoser, on 19 June 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

It's fair to say that we don't think alike.  Makes the forum lively I suppose.

think of the forum as a see-saw...for it to work we need weight on either side

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

I like to think of it as a bouncy castle.

[zoser]

Here is another well documented UFO wave, this time Wytheville VA and it occurred in the late 1980's.  The clip is less than 20 minutes long and tells the story of Danny Gordon a radio news reporter who became involved in some local UFO sightings.  He has photographic evidence, and testifies to intimidation by unkown authorities which includes threats to his life and family members.  Similar in some respects to the Hudson Valley wave.  Enjoy.

[epiffanie]

Well I seen a ufo when I was about 8-9 years old in the early 90s and never again.  I grow up in the South Bronx, New York on Simpson Street, and my brother, his friend and I use to hang out on the roof of the patio because it was a pretty decent view for new york city and over looked Yankee Stadium.  We saw this flying object in the air for a while but paid no mind because we figured it was an air balloon because Yankee Stadium usually lets out air ballons during games for advertisement purposes.  Anyway as the air ballon got closer to us realised that this was not an air ballon at all.  Basically like I mentioned I lived on Simpson Street.  The craft got so close that it was on the side of a building that was located on Fox Street.  I saw this round oval whatever looking this with lights.  While flying it did not make any noise, but when it was coming down it did.  It made like a release noise I do not know like some type of air pressure was being released im guessing now since I am a lot older.  Anyway I ran into the house scared, my brother and his friend tried to record it, but when we played back the video it should the area where the craft was for about 2 hours in the same spot but no craft in the video, mind u we only recorded it for about 5 minutes.

It is something I experienced with other people a long time ago.  I am not saying anyone should believe it it is up to you guys, but I am not saying that this was aliens either.  Maybe it was a bunch of drunk scientist who said fuqq it lets try this out now, get ready for 2012, yay! lol But I do firmly believe that this craft looked pretty old school like those alien crafts in old sci-fiction films.  Now we see these videos of these high tech flying saucers with various shapes.  Maybe it was an old alien aircraft that hit this planet a long time ago and they finally got it to work who knows whatever.  Its just what I saw.  And that lady does not seem like she is lying and if she is whatever, because I know what I saw, just do not know who was the man behind the movement of this machine.

Edited by epiffanie, 19 June 2012 - 08:59 PM.