15 replies to this topic

[Arpee]

Joy is happiness, it is positive, it is all things that feel good such a Love, Compassion, and Appreciation...

Love (Compassion) is just spreading that Joy to others...
And Appreciation is thinking about how things makes us happy.

We daydream because it gives us Joy.
We take action because of Joy (For the result of Joy or because the action is Joyful itself).

The difference between a good and bad person is that a good person knows the value of Joy for self and others.

[bulveye]

I know, I've actually experienced him. I asked him some questions and his answers were a massive barrage of images and feeling and life and death and stuff that's too hard to explain. My overall feeling I was left with is that he is full of love and humour. he wants us to just be peaceful and be happy and make others happy. He does not intervene with human affairs any more as it is pointless of him too and the after life is where it is all at!

[Ratte]

Your post makes sense except for the part where a god comes in. Could you explain further?

[Arpee]

bulveye, on 24 April 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

I know, I've actually experienced him. I asked him some questions and his answers were a massive barrage of images and feeling and life and death and stuff that's too hard to explain. My overall feeling I was left with is that he is full of love and humour. he wants us to just be peaceful and be happy and make others happy. He does not intervene with human affairs any more as it is pointless of him too and the after life is where it is all at!

Yes, yes, yes!
Love is spreading that Joy to others who are lacking it.
Peace is calmness which is achieved through happiness.
Humor is awesome, it is Happiness and Laughter-making.

I love how it all connects.

Ratte, on 24 April 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Your post makes sense except for the part where a god comes in. Could you explain further?

This God is the pure essence of White Light which all things in the physical (matter) AND spiritual (energy) is made of.

Matter is just slower moving energy.

That light is shown brightly in beings of intense Joy with the desire to spread it to others (this is easily seen in spirits).  

Those thoughts that you experience about yourself and others and all of the good things in your life when you are happy... you are in full alignment with the thoughts of the creator (white light energy). The Creator is not condescending and judgmental like most religious writing teach.

You don't have to believe in "God" if you don't want. To be happy and to make others happy is good enough...

[The world needs you]

I am to the disposition that joy is just one of the conditions of which we experience and while it is important to experience joy it should not be our main focus in life. Elevating it to a primary goal, especially in a desire to import it to others, can only lead to misguided social transactions.

A healthy range of emotions, both positive and negative, is necessary for our growth. How we process all these emotions only gets better with experience but even if one were to experience other emotions but was solely focused on joy then they would disservice themself. Joy as a refuge or goal only diminishes our processing ability towards other emotions.

An imperfect analogy would be of having an average car in which we repurpose for extreme speed. Accordingly we can focus all our materials and energy on speed but never learn how to handle curves or share the road with other drivers. Sometimes in life we need to break as well and not just speed.

Attempting to deify an emotional state such as joy or making it an end in itself is verging close to hedonism. Also some joys can actually be the product of unhealthy behaviors. Joy might purely be chemcial processes with are value neutral so they would not differentiate between healthy and unhealthy behaviors.

Edited by Unseelie, 25 April 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[Arpee]

Unseelie, on 25 April 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

A healthy range of emotions, both positive and negative, is necessary for our growth.

From everything that I've learned it appears that "negativity" IS indeed necessary for our "growth" because we can CHOOSE to stay connected to God energy and to not let anything pull us out of it. By following happiness we are following our inner nature. If you do not be yourself, you will feel the discord.

Unseelie, on 25 April 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

Attempting to deify an emotional state such as joy or making it an end in itself is verging close to hedonism.

Why would that be a bad thing?

Unseelie, on 25 April 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

An imperfect analogy would be of having an average car in which we repurpose for extreme speed. Accordingly we can focus all our materials and energy on speed but never learn how to handle curves or share the road with other drivers. Sometimes in life we need to break as well and not just speed.

This is a bad analogy to emotion, because you don't "choose" to feel negative emotion ( well, most don't), it most likely happens naturally when you don't like something in life. So you don't have to worry about that at all. Your job, if you value happiness and want the most happy life, is to find a way to remain happy in a unwanted circumstance. Maybe you can change the circumstance, or if not, find the things about it which DOES make you happy.

Of course, everything that I am saying means nothing if you don't care about happiness, and don't want the most joyful life experience...

[Abramelin]

For some reason I had to think of Stimpy of "The Ren and Stimpy Show", lol !

[karmakazi]

Arpee, on 25 April 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Of course, everything that I am saying means nothing if you don't care about happiness, and don't want the most joyful life experience...

Why is it that happiness should be the end goal for people to have?  If we pursue nothing but happiness, we miss out on a lot.

Should a person be pitied if they don't uphold their own happiness as the most important thing in the world?  I'm sorry but this seems very selfish to me and the opposite of most religious messages.  Except the church of satan ... they uphold the pursuit of one's own happiness as an ideal.

Personally I uphold the middle path, the balance.  If we chase after any extreme, we become trapped in that obsession and unable to see clearly, as evidenced by both people who seek their own happiness relentlessly and those who subconciously believe they are undeserving of any happiness at all.

Abramelin, on 25 April 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

For some reason I had to think of Stimpy of "The Ren and Stimpy Show", lol !

Terribly appropriate, I think!  (and one of the best shows ever!!!)

[Arpee]

karmakazi, on 25 April 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Why is it that happiness should be the end goal for people to have?

It doesn't have to be, you can make your own decisions in life.

karmakazi, on 25 April 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

If we pursue nothing but happiness, we miss out on a lot.

Yeah, like much unhappiness for example.

karmakazi, on 25 April 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Should a person be pitied if they don't uphold their own happiness as the most important thing in the world?  I'm sorry but this seems very selfish to me and the opposite of most religious messages.  Except the church of satan ... they uphold the pursuit of one's own happiness as an ideal.

I never said that a person should only care about their own happiness. In fact, I said that things would be better if happiness was valued, not just one's own happiness but spreading it to others...

karmakazi, on 25 April 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Personally I uphold the middle path, the balance.  If we chase after any extreme, we become trapped in that obsession and unable to see clearly, as evidenced by both people who seek their own happiness relentlessly and those who subconciously believe they are undeserving of any happiness at all.

I am sorry to here that. It seems as though you are trapped in a duality mentality since you are talking about this "middle path".

You have free will to believe what you want even if it causes your own suffering, I am just happy to have offered another view which can multiply the happiness of own's self and others. It is yours to try out this philosophy or not.

[The world needs you]

The following two quotes are brill and they stated it more concisely than I could have.

Quote

Happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side effect...

—Viktor Frankl

Quote

Most men pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it.

—Søren Kierkegaard

[karmakazi]

Arpee, on 25 April 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

It doesn't have to be, you can make your own decisions in life.

I know that, I was asking why you seemed to think if someone doesn't pursue their own happiness it's sad and they are missing out.

Quote

Yeah, like much unhappiness for example.

Running from unhappiness, at least where I come from, leads a lot of people to drown themselves in vices like drugs and alcohol.
Hence the reason I think that it is dangerous.

Quote

I never said that a person should only care about their own happiness. In fact, I said that things would be better if happiness was valued, not just one's own happiness but spreading it to others...

You said you didn't see why hedonism was a bad thing, and that's what I was responding to.  Hedonism doesn't include worrying about other people's happiness, only one's own.

Quote

I am sorry to here that. It seems as though you are trapped in a duality mentality since you are talking about this "middle path".

You have free will to believe what you want even if it causes your own suffering, I am just happy to have offered another view which can multiply the happiness of own's self and others. It is yours to try out this philosophy or not.

Perhaps you misunderstood - this is the middle path of which I speak:

My link

[Arpee]

karmakazi, on 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I know that, I was asking why you seemed to think if someone doesn't pursue their own happiness it's sad and they are missing out.

It's sad because I want happiness for everyone but I know people have free-will to believe what they wish. They are missing out on more happiness obviously.

karmakazi, on 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Running from unhappiness, at least where I come from, leads a lot of people to drown themselves in vices like drugs and alcohol.
Hence the reason I think that it is dangerous.

I never said anything about 'running away' from happiness.

karmakazi, on 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Perhaps you misunderstood - this is the middle path of which I speak:

My link

I know exactly what it is.

[Arpee]

karmakazi, on 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I know that, I was asking why you seemed to think if someone doesn't pursue their own happiness it's sad and they are missing out.

It's sad because I want happiness for everyone but I know people have free-will to believe what they wish. They are missing out on more happiness obviously.

karmakazi, on 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Running from unhappiness, at least where I come from, leads a lot of people to drown themselves in vices like drugs and alcohol.
Hence the reason I think that it is dangerous.

I never said anything about 'running away' from happiness.

karmakazi, on 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

You said you didn't see why hedonism was a bad thing, and that's what I was responding to.  Hedonism doesn't include worrying about other people's happiness, only one's own.

No, hedonism just says that happiness (or pleasure)is the highest good. That is it. So it is not accurate to say that it doesn't 'include' valuing and encouraging other people's happiness.

karmakazi, on 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Perhaps you misunderstood - this is the middle path of which I speak:

My link

I know exactly what it is.

[karmakazi]

Arpee, on 26 April 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

I never said anything about 'running away' from happiness.

The pursuit of happiness is the same thing as trying to eliminate or escape from UNhappiness... and people trying to eliminate or escape from unhappiness can lead to abuse of vice.

Quote

No, hedonism just says that happiness (or pleasure)is the highest good. That is it. So it is not accurate to say that it doesn't 'include' valuing and encouraging other people's happiness.

Hedonism by definition is the pursuit of one's own pleasure, that ones pleasure in life should be far more than their pain, and the idea that any means necessary to achieve that result are thereby ethical.

"any means necessary" seems to imply other people's "pleasure" isn't taken into consideration.

[Arpee]

karmakazi, on 26 April 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Hedonism by definition is the pursuit of one's own pleasure, that ones pleasure in life should be far more than their pain, and the idea that any means necessary to achieve that result are thereby ethical.

"any means necessary" seems to imply other people's "pleasure" isn't taken into consideration.

Well then we disagree because I haven't seen one definition yet which says "one's OWN happiness". Most definitions say "pleasure is the highest good" without giving regard to "self" and "others".