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New voter I.D. laws


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#61    Babe Ruth

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:26 PM

I think the question to be discussed is just exactly what problem does showing a photo ID solve?

Certainly for financial transactions and other specific instances, such an ID is smart and necessary, but for other things, what's the problem to be solved?

As for the voting question, there is no demonstrated problem of people trying to vote under another's name, or vote twice, or things like that.  The Republicans seem to MANUFACTURE a problem, but it's more a figment of their imagination than a real life problem.


#62    Myles

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:44 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 October 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

I think the question to be discussed is just exactly what problem does showing a photo ID solve?

Certainly for financial transactions and other specific instances, such an ID is smart and necessary, but for other things, what's the problem to be solved?

As for the voting question, there is no demonstrated problem of people trying to vote under another's name, or vote twice, or things like that.  The Republicans seem to MANUFACTURE a problem, but it's more a figment of their imagination than a real life problem.
I tend to agree with you on this.   There really is not a huge problem with voting.  
For me, I just like the end result of many more people having photo ID's.


#63    ninjadude

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

so only the driving public should be able to vote?

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#64    Myles

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:03 AM

View Postninjadude, on 05 October 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

so only the driving public should be able to vote?
Why do you say that?


#65    and then

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:02 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 October 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

I think the question to be discussed is just exactly what problem does showing a photo ID solve?

Certainly for financial transactions and other specific instances, such an ID is smart and necessary, but for other things, what's the problem to be solved?

As for the voting question, there is no demonstrated problem of people trying to vote under another's name, or vote twice, or things like that.  The Republicans seem to MANUFACTURE a problem, but it's more a figment of their imagination than a real life problem.
I think there is no doubt that vote rigging happens - both sides do it.  The real problem as I see it is that asking for an ID isn't excessively intrusive.  Considering what's at stake - if confidence is lost in the fairness of the election we're in big trouble.  Some here think that the whole process is a sham and maybe they are correct but if the people finally decide to forget that process and take matters into their own hands we will have a real mess on our hands.

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#66    Babe Ruth

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:38 PM

I agree on the vote-rigging thing AND THEN, but voter fraud by way of any voter casting multiple votes is not necessarily "vote-rigging".  I guess it's a semantic point?

HBO showed several years ago how Diebold and other of the newer machines could be hijacked and rigged, but that is not really voter fraud, it's fraud by the authorities--those on the inside who control and operate those machines.

Voters attempting multiple votes is virtually unheard of, at least in my experience.


#67    Michelle

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

Dead people voting is a type of election fraud that occurs when the name of a deceased person remains on a state's official list of registered voters and a living person fraudulently casts a ballot in that name.
The extent to which this type of vote fraud occurs is not known. If, after an election, a reporter examines the publicly available list of who voted in the election and finds from other evidence (such as the Social Security Administration's "Death Master File") that there is good reason to believe that some of the names on the list of those who voted are the names of people who are dead, it can be established that "dead people voted." Such painstaking analyses are expensive and cumbersome.

http://www.ballotped...d_people_voting

That wouldn't even account for the people who are homebound or in nursing homes.

Edited by Michelle, 06 October 2012 - 03:20 PM.


#68    and then

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:10 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 October 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

I agree on the vote-rigging thing AND THEN, but voter fraud by way of any voter casting multiple votes is not necessarily "vote-rigging".  I guess it's a semantic point?

HBO showed several years ago how Diebold and other of the newer machines could be hijacked and rigged, but that is not really voter fraud, it's fraud by the authorities--those on the inside who control and operate those machines.

Voters attempting multiple votes is virtually unheard of, at least in my experience.
Perhaps "rigging" was an inaccurate statement.  My point was that both sides have been known to have people vote illegally.  Not so much multiple ballots as ineligible voters.  If a poll worker wanted to help "fix" an election they could allow voters with no ID to cast ballots under assumed names that are on the list.  I think that as long as no expense is required of a citizen, an ID is a minimal security to enhance confidence in our elections.  I believe that we are fast approaching a place where the public will really lose confidence in the security of the vote and when people realize they are powerless to change things one way - they start looking for other ways.....

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#69    Socio

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:22 PM

View Postninjadude, on 05 October 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

so only the driving public should be able to vote?

Really only tax payers should be allowed to vote since they are the ones paying the salary for the elected but if that were to happen the democrat party would go extinct.


#70    Socio

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:26 PM

View PostLady Kasey, on 25 September 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

Isn't a driving license necessary for driving? Or a photo ID to conduct general transactions like check cashing? What about passports?

Yes, and these ID's are made so easy to get that if you can't take the time to get one you don't have the time to vote either.


#71    Socio

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:44 PM

Here is the problem for the US;

http://cis.org/2012-...born-population

Quote

Using the latest Census Bureau data from 2010 and 2011, this paper provides a detailed picture of the more than 50 million immigrants (legal and illegal)

That number is probably very conservative and in all likelihood considerably more, but even using the 50 million number if just 25% of them are voting in US elections it is more than enough to decide elections from local all the way to the POTUS. Remember George Bush beat Al Gore by only 543 votes in Florida and could have easily been decided by foreign voters,

We have to do everything possible to make sure only Americans are deciding elections if that means getting an ID then it should be your civic duty to get one or don't vote.

Edited by Socio, 07 October 2012 - 04:46 PM.


#72    ninjadude

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:30 PM

View PostSocio, on 07 October 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Really only tax payers should be allowed to vote since they are the ones paying the salary for the elected but if that were to happen the democrat party would go extinct.

probably one of the most un-American sentiments I have seen in some time.

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#73    Socio

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:06 PM

Reading this;

http://www.washingto...iled-democrats/

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Florida officials are reviewing allegations of voter registration fraud against the state Democratic Party.
The Florida Department of State on Friday confirmed that it has forwarded complaints about voter registration fraud that have been filed against the Democrats, as well as against two groups — the Florida New Majority Education Fund and National Council of La Raza/Democracia USA.

Though the actual fraud has not been disclosed, with the National Council of La Raza/Democracia USA being implicated , it would not be a stretch to assume it involves registering immigrants to vote.

If so then this is exactly why national voter ID is needed.

Edited by Socio, 08 October 2012 - 04:07 PM.


#74    F3SS

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:59 AM

I'd like to revive a dead thread here. I was looking up the Pennsylvania voting ticket and stumbled upon the new PA voter ID laws. The ID law passed. I was under the impression that IDs were not required for this election because the judge remained unconvinced that all voters would not have IDs in time for the election. That's sort of the case. Turns out that all first time voters are required to show proof of identification but not those who have previously cast ballots. Well the point of this post is to show the forms of acceptable ID which are in direct contrast to the difficulties and unfairness of it all according to those opposed. If you're a student, an employee with a badge, an employee with a paycheck, someone with a bank account or someone who receives a government check(likely argued to be the most disenfranchised) you can vote. Most of these things cost zero money. All of these things require an ID to get in the first place anyways. Seems to me that every fair measure has been taking to eliminate every possibility of being disenfranchised. Who doesn't have at east one of these things? Nobody that's going to vote anyways. The biggest burden of voter ID laws seems to be remembering to bring one of these things with you to the polls. So what if you think it's not necessary. In light of this information I say how can it hurt?

http://www.votespa.c...=1174125&mode=2
First-Time Voter

If youíre voting for the first time in an upcoming election, the information below can help you ensure youíre prepared once you arrive at the polls. All voters who appear at a polling place for the first time must show proof of identification.  Approved forms of photo identification include:

Pennsylvania driverís license or PennDOT ID card
ID issued by any Commonwealth agency
ID issued by the U.S. Government
U.S. passport
U.S. Armed Forces ID
Student ID
Employee ID
If you do not have a photo ID, you can use a non-photo identification that includes your name and address.  Approved forms of non-photo identification include:
Confirmation issued by the County Voter Registration Office

Non-photo ID issued by the Commonwealth
Non-photo ID issued by the U.S. Government
Firearm permit
Current utility bill
Current bank statement
Current paycheck
Government check

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Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 02 November 2012 - 01:00 AM.

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