28 replies to this topic

[jugoso]

Just found out that the government is coming to my daughters school to take fingerprints and her retinal scan for the new ID card. Considering many of the shcools in the outer areas of the city often have dirt floors, cardboard walls and lack even some of the most basic resources, the whole thin just seems kinda weird to me. It may just be the retinal eye scan thing, but it still makes me uncomfortable. It is optional at this point but I can foresee tat changing soon. My wife (who is Mexican) doesn´t have any problem with it but I am more leery about the whole thing. Am I just being paranoid?

[Paracelse]

What type of argument is the government offering to justify retinal scan?  Isn't an invasion of privacy?

[Mr_Snstr]

It does seem very weird. I would be leery of it too. I don't think you're being overly paranoid.

Though that says nothing to whether I'm overly paranoid. Therefore we could both be overly paranoid.

[bulveye]

**** THAT ****!

I would keep my kid home for home schooling that day! Seriously, can they force you to make yr kid do that?  

[Corp]

I generally brush off most of the claims on these fourms as nothing more than mass paranoid, however this does seem very odd. I'm assuming there's been a build up to this? The government planning this, explaining why they're putting this program into place, etc? Seems like a massive waste of money to use all that tech just to make ID cards. I'd looking into the matter more. Ask the school for more information, check government sources, etc.

[jugoso]

Corp, on 07 December 2011 - 06:53 PM, said:

I generally brus off most of the claims on these fourms as nothing more than mass paranoid, however this does seem very odd. I'm assuming there's been a build up to this? The government planning this, explaining why they're putting this program into place, etc? Seems like a massive waste of money to use all that tech just to make ID cards. I'd looking into the matter more. Ask the school for more information, check government sources, etc.

There is a meeting at hher scool in an hour. You can be sure I will be there!
There is an English link about the program.

http://www.renapo.go...swb/RENAPO/cedi

In terms of a build-up, the first I heard about it was last week. Apparently they showed up at a school with all the equipment and the school knew absolutely nothing about it. Probably te reason for todays info session.

[rashore]

Weird.. I can understand fingerprint and photo of kids, but iris image seems like overkill.

[lightly]

rashore, on 07 December 2011 - 07:32 PM, said:

Weird.. I can understand fingerprint and photo of kids, but iris image seems like overkill.

  hmm,  if this is a nationwide thing... retinal scans of all school children ?,   i'd say they can expect a retinal scan system in place  fairly soon?

. . .   I wonder who will get the contract for the scanners ¿?¿?$¿°

[rashore]

lightly, on 07 December 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

  hmm,  if this is a nationwide thing... retinal scans of all school children ?,   i'd say they can expect a retinal scan system in place  fairly soon?

. . .   I wonder who will get the contract for the scanners ¿?¿?$¿°

Snort.. that's an excellent question. Fingerprints and photo isn't all that big of a thing, but I bet someone could make quite a bit of bucks on the scanners.

[jugoso]

I had my day for the meeting wrong   . It´s mañana.
From the website. these are the supposed benefits:  
1. It is an official identification throughout the country and is recognized by Mexican authorities in the country and abroad
2. Avoid identity theft of minors
3. provides easy access to health services, education, recreation and culture, reducing the submission of several documents
4. Lets you know quickly who are the parents or guardians of minors, because their names also appear.

OK....so the need for a retinal scan??
FAQ´s  
http://www.renapo.go.../RENAPO/FaqCEDI

Edited by jugoso, 07 December 2011 - 09:38 PM.

[Grey14]

What is the big deal about a iris scan? It is basicaly the same thing a a fingerprint. You all have no problems with the fingerprint aspect then why have issue with an iris scan. Some advantages an iris scan.

courtesy of wiki

It is an internal organ that is well protected against damage and wear by a highly transparent and sensitive membrane (the cornea). This distinguishes it from fingerprints, which can be difficult to recognize after years of certain types of manual labor.

The iris has a fine texture that—like fingerprints—is determined randomly during embryonic gestation. Like the fingerprint, it is very hard (if not impossible) to prove that the iris is unique. However, there are so many factors that go into the formation of these textures (the iris and fingerprint) that the chance of false matches for either is extremely low. Even genetically identical individuals have completely independent iris textures.

An iris scan is similar to taking a photograph and can be performed from about 10 cm to a few meters away. There is no need for the person being identified to touch any equipment that has recently been touched by a stranger, thereby eliminating an objection that has been raised in some cultures against fingerprint scanners, where a finger has to touch a surface, or retinal scanning, where the eye must be brought very close to an eyepiece (like looking into a microscope).

While there are some medical and surgical procedures that can affect the colour and overall shape of the iris, the fine texture remains remarkably stable over many decades. Some iris identifications have succeeded over a period of about 30 years.


This is just an added way beyond the finger print to be able to identify you and prove who you are.

[jugoso]

Grey14, on 07 December 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:

What is the big deal about a iris scan? It is basicaly the same thing a a fingerprint. You all have no problems with the fingerprint aspect then why have issue with an iris scan. Some advantages an iris scan.

courtesy of wiki

It is an internal organ that is well protected against damage and wear by a highly transparent and sensitive membrane (the cornea). This distinguishes it from fingerprints, which can be difficult to recognize after years of certain types of manual labor.

The iris has a fine texture that—like fingerprints—is determined randomly during embryonic gestation. Like the fingerprint, it is very hard (if not impossible) to prove that the iris is unique. However, there are so many factors that go into the formation of these textures (the iris and fingerprint) that the chance of false matches for either is extremely low. Even genetically identical individuals have completely independent iris textures.

An iris scan is similar to taking a photograph and can be performed from about 10 cm to a few meters away. There is no need for the person being identified to touch any equipment that has recently been touched by a stranger, thereby eliminating an objection that has been raised in some cultures against fingerprint scanners, where a finger has to touch a surface, or retinal scanning, where the eye must be brought very close to an eyepiece (like looking into a microscope).

While there are some medical and surgical procedures that can affect the colour and overall shape of the iris, the fine texture remains remarkably stable over many decades. Some iris identifications have succeeded over a period of about 30 years.


This is just an added way beyond the finger print to be able to identify you and prove who you are.

Thanks for pointing out that it is an iris scan and not a retinal one.
I also recognize that it is the iris scan that makes me uneasy. Is it really necessary on top of the fingerprint? If the only reason is that it is needed in case her prints may be worn out after years of manual labour, I´ll take my chances.
The other statement makes me even more uncomfortable:
"An iris scan is similar to taking a photograph and can be performed from about 10 cm to a few meters away. There is no need for the person being identified to touch any equipment that has recently been touched by a stranger, thereby eliminating an objection that has been raised in some cultures against fingerprint scanners, where a finger has to touch a surface, or retinal scanning, where the eye must be brought very close to an eyepiece."
seems pretty bogus to me. Reading between the lines, they can identify you without you even being aware. At least with the fingerprint or retina you are aware you are being identified. Smells like BB to me!

[Grey14]

jugoso, on 07 December 2011 - 09:36 PM, said:

Thanks for pointing out that it is an iris scan and not a retinal one.
I also recognize that it is the iris scan that makes me uneasy. Is it really necessary on top of the fingerprint? If the only reason is that it is needed in case her prints may be worn out after years of manual labour, I´ll take my chances.
The other statement makes me even more uncomfortable:
"An iris scan is similar to taking a photograph and can be performed from about 10 cm to a few meters away. There is no need for the person being identified to touch any equipment that has recently been touched by a stranger, thereby eliminating an objection that has been raised in some cultures against fingerprint scanners, where a finger has to touch a surface, or retinal scanning, where the eye must be brought very close to an eyepiece."
seems pretty bogus to me. Reading between the lines, they can identify you without you even being aware. At least with the fingerprint or retina you are aware you are being identified. Smells like BB to me!

True this would mean you could be identified from a slight distance, you would still be able to tell if someone scanned you. I mean the guy with the big scanner pointed at your face, hello. We arent quite into the tech of Minority report though i can see your point. However i can also see some situations where this would be an invaluable tool to indentify someone.

[Hilander]

I wouldn't like it. Give them an inch and they will take a yard, way it usually goes isn't it.

[jugoso]

Grey14, on 07 December 2011 - 09:55 PM, said:

True this would mean you could be identified from a slight distance, you would still be able to tell if someone scanned you. I mean the guy with the big scanner pointed at your face, hello. We arent quite into the tech of Minority report though i can see your point. However i can also see some situations where this would be an invaluable tool to indentify someone.

an invaluable tool to indentify someone...you mean everyone

I´m sure the technology will be available in the near future if it isn´t already to do so without you being aware. As i pointed out in the OP, Mexico is certainly not on the cutting-ede of hi-technology and this program seems sorely out-of-place . I can´t see the value of having the iris scan other than to be able to identify people in a non-invasive way. This program is definately costing big $$ and has involved some serious planning. I am actually amazed at the quality of the website and the fact that it is also in English!! From everyone I´ve spoken with today, no one has known anything about it.I checked out the website a little more and learned a few more things. It is overseen by

The Undersecretary of Population, Migration and Religious Affairs is responsible for:

Lead population policies, migration, shelter, development of the north border and religious, multi-sectoral in nature.

The country's population planning.


To regulate the migratory flows and the foreigners' stay in the country, the integral and sustainable development of the region of the north border.

Source http://www.renapo.go...O/subsecretaria

WTF????