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N. Korea fires 2 short range missiles


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#16    RockabyeBillie

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostOverSword, on 15 March 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just ask yourself this then.  Does China want the US military on thier border?  Probably not so I would guess they would rather take control in NK than let the US lead the charge.

Alright, makes sense. The whole thing does scare me. Don't want war and I don't want anyone getting nuked. At the same time, I feel bad for the N Korean people, if reports are true that they are starving and brainwashed.

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#17    sear

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

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"Does China want the US military on thier border?" OS
For those that didn't connect the dot,
OS rightly observes that a South Korean conquest of NK, might well mean U.S. troops directly on China's border.

I'd like to think the U.S. could diplomatically negotiate in private, saying that if China will sign a non-aggression pact with reunified Korea (under political control of the former South) U.S. troops will be withdrawn.
  

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"...  today there are over 320,000 [U.S.] Army troops alone, deployed in 120 countries overseas. That's more than 60% of the entire [U.S.] Army." NBC-TV Nightly News March 9, '04.   
That's too many!
The U.S. spends more on military than all other (~28?) NATO nations combined.
That's too much!


#18    Yes_Man

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:20 PM

The thing worrries me is that the media and other countries are underestimating a country with Nuclear weapons, sure about everyone else is poor. But I fear North Korea is going to fight back hard and they would be laughing. I'd say do something now before its too late. Not many of you will agree with me but a nuclear war is just around the corner


#19    Coffey

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:33 PM

View Postsear, on 15 March 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

North Korea doesn't send U.S. any food. But we're not starving.

That doesn't make sense tot he sanctions.

NK has no money for harvesting/producing food in it's own country due to the sanctions. The US would suffer like most countries from sanctions if the dollar was affected, making it worthless. The US imports a lot and exports labour which makes the dollar stronger.

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#20    sear

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

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"I'd say do something now before its too late." RN
It may already be too late. Their delivery system may not be too good. But they've already detonated more than one warhead; 3 if I recall correctly.

Perhaps mutual assured destruction (MAD) will keep us safe for now.
If NK uses a nuke in aggression against a U.S. or NATO ally, Pyongyang will be a smoldering crator.

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"NK has no money for harvesting/producing food in it's own country " AA
Agreed.

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"due to the sanctions." AA
So you say.
I'd want to review your source material before I regard that as fact.
Unquestionably the sanctions have hurt.
But SK, and the U.S. have provided NK food aid before.

You think China wouldn't have helped NK to agricultural self-sufficiency, if it were within the realm of practicality? NK is deeply, profoundly dysfunctional.

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"The US would suffer like most countries from sanctions" AA
Agreed. Smoot-Hawley & all that.

But would it induce famine in America? I kind of doubt it. Obesity is a problem among our poor! I know of no historic precedent for that.


#21    sear

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

clarification / apology:

I misattributed.
Wrong: "AA" = Alien Abducter
The correct attribute is Coffey

Please forgive my error.


#22    Yes_Man

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:07 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-21807067


#23    sear

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

per RN's link:

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  The Pentagon is expected to announce plans to boost missile defences on the US West Coast to counter the threat from North Korea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nada-21807067  
CBS-TV 60 Minutes broadcast a segment on Israel's "Iron Dome" missile defense.

Impressive.

IIRC they claimed Israel's short range missile defense has about an 80% success rate.

Since U.S. foreign aid helped pay for that system, I hope Israel has shared the technology with our own missile defenses.

But at issue here aren't the $500.oo pieces of junk Hamas launches over the wall. At issue w/ NK are ICBMs (I suspect, thought they might prefer the cruise missile approach).


#24    and then

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:27 PM

I really do not think NK would begin a war in a premeditated fashion.  Their leaders have been far too rational in their approach to foreign policy so far.  They threaten and they receive benefits.  That pattern was set by US.....  WE allowed them to get away with the blackmail and now it seems they might push too far in desperation.  They need aid and the fat boy might keep escalating until something happens accidentally but this needs to stop.  NK needs to grow up and sit down at the table of nations or it needs to cease from being a nation.    It is shameful what we've allowed to happen there all these years - those people being treated so inhumanely for so long.  If war ever did begin, I feel really badly for the people of Seoul.

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#25    Corp

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostCoffey, on 15 March 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Well the thing is, if a big bully told you what to do..... Would you obey them or would you be really annoyed?

Cause the US keeps putting sanctions on them, the US puts sanctions on Iran as well. Do you know what thta does to the innocent people of those coun tries? People starve, their money becomes useless and their living conditions suffer.

Do you expect these countries to just sit and take that? I sure as hell wouldn't. So when you read these stories in the western media, remember that it's our goverments fault in the first place, these countries are being pushed and pushed until they hit back. You back an animal into the corner and it will fight back.

Maybe if North Korea stopped spending all their money on their upper class and on their military they would be better able to feed their people. Maybe if they gave up their nuclear weapon program sancations would be lifted, as the US has done in the past, and additional aid can be given, as the US has done in the past. Maybe if they stopped threating to destroy South Korea every other week more efforts could be made to improve relations, as has been attempted in the past.

This isn't an animal being backed into a corner. This is an animal going out looking for a fight and getting smacked as a result.


Quote

Yes that's what happens when a big bully country puts sanctions on another country.

That's what happens when a country refuses peace offerings and throws around threats everywhere. The US has tried several times to work out agreements with North Korea and every time it seems that things are starting to calm down North Korea flips out and starts making threats. That China, who has been North Korea's protector, is now working with the US to put limits on their allies should tell you who's the bully in this case. The only country that's to blame for North Korea's woes is North Korea.


View Postsear, on 15 March 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

PS

There's some precedent for it I suppose. China's already annexed Tibet.

But the North Koreans aren't Chinese. They're Korean; blood kin to the South Koreans.

China's governance of NK might be an improvement, for the U.S., particularly if China dismantled the DMZ; and turned it into a more normal border.

- I'm not sure that's what would happen.

- But if it did, I'm not sure South Korea would like it; not sure they'd tolerate it. Problem there is, the U.S. is bound by treaty to South Korea.

Oh no China doesn't want to annex North Korea. They already have a big problem with Koreans sneaking across the border looking for a better life. There's no way in hell that China wants to try and deal with millions of starving and brainwashed North Koreans. They'd just kill a bunch of high ranking officials until they found someone to follow their orders.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#26    AsteroidX

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

Its a buffer zone between China and the USA. Both countries want it to remain that way. Missile defense systems only work if you have time to react. Therefore buffer countries are advantageous.

NK is acting like a rabid dog however and noones enjoying it.


#27    Coffey

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostCorp, on 15 March 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Maybe if North Korea stopped spending all their money on their upper class and on their military they would be better able to feed their people. Maybe if they gave up their nuclear weapon program sancations would be lifted, as the US has done in the past, and additional aid can be given, as the US has done in the past. Maybe if they stopped threating to destroy South Korea every other week more efforts could be made to improve relations, as has been attempted in the past.

This isn't an animal being backed into a corner. This is an animal going out looking for a fight and getting smacked as a result.




That's what happens when a country refuses peace offerings and throws around threats everywhere. The US has tried several times to work out agreements with North Korea and every time it seems that things are starting to calm down North Korea flips out and starts making threats. That China, who has been North Korea's protector, is now working with the US to put limits on their allies should tell you who's the bully in this case. The only country that's to blame for North Korea's woes is North Korea.




Who gives the US the right to say who can own nukes when they have them?! It's the most hypocritical thing ever. lol


Also the US upperclass is given far more than the mddle or lower. lol The people in high positions all help their friends first, same in the UK.

It's all hypocritical BS.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#28    DarkHunter

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:53 PM

View PostCoffey, on 15 March 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Who gives the US the right to say who can own nukes when they have them?! It's the most hypocritical thing ever. lol


Also the US upperclass is given far more than the mddle or lower. lol The people in high positions all help their friends first, same in the UK.

It's all hypocritical BS.

Coffey whether you like it or not being the post powerful country militarily gives the US the right to decide who can have nukes and who can't.  I don't know why you keep on this idea that the world is fair, the world is simply not fair, the most powerful will always decide what goes on and how it goes on.  Also the US has proven to be rather responsible with our nuclear arsenal unlike countries like North Korea that besides from threatening to start another war every few weeks are now threatening to use nuclear weapons offensively.  Lastly you got to be realistic with the world, which I question if you can since you hold on to a world being fair point of view, that more countries getting nuclear weapons is never a good thing and a country with nuclear weapons, especially a country with the amount of the US, will never get rid of them all.  The more countries with nuclear weapons, specially the current countries either who have recently acquired nuclear weapons or are trying to get nuclear weapons, drastically increases the chances of a nuclear weapon being used again and that isn't good for anyone.

Sounds like you are mad at not being part of the upper class, of course people help their friends and family first, that is simply how life is and life is not fair.  While the upper class may be given more I can safely tell you most of them do more then the middle class and lower class combined.  You may think it is easy being at the top but it isn't easy at all, it is hard to get to the top and even harder to stay there.


#29    OverSword

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostCoffey, on 15 March 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Who gives the US the right to say who can own nukes when they have them?! It's the most hypocritical thing ever. lol


Also the US upperclass is given far more than the mddle or lower. lol The people in high positions all help their friends first, same in the UK.

It's all hypocritical BS.
Coffee, sometimes I just want to grab you by the lapels and shake you while screaming "GET OFF OF MY PAGE YOU'RE WEIRDING ME OUT MAN!!!!"

It's like you're chanelling me or something.

Edited by OverSword, 15 March 2013 - 10:00 PM.


#30    Corp

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:05 PM

View PostCoffey, on 15 March 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Who gives the US the right to say who can own nukes when they have them?! It's the most hypocritical thing ever. lol


Also the US upperclass is given far more than the mddle or lower. lol The people in high positions all help their friends first, same in the UK.

It's all hypocritical BS.

I didn't know China was being controlled by the US. Because if you've been paying attention China doesn't want North Korea to have nukes either. No sane and rational person wants North Korea to have nukes.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.




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