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G.Cooper encountered man-made flying saucers


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#526    psyche101

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:48 AM

View Postzoser, on 04 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

So Friedman's criticisms are probably more to do with the co-author of the book?  That would make sense.

Instead of derailing the topic, maybe email and ask him yourself. Or do you prefer to guess your answers?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#527    JimOberg

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:50 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 November 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

I think I already did that a few pages back here, just from that interview with Mitchell I posted.



Right, here's what you posted:

"My experiment involved four transmission sessions during rest periods programmed into the flight. The well-known experiment in the laboratory was to use cards with the five Zener symbols, but the actual cards aren't important. It was easier for me to use random number tables than carry the physical cards. Instead, all I did was to generate four tables of 25 random numbers just using the numbers 1 to 5. Then I randomly assigned a Zener symbol to each number.

For each transmission, I would then check the particular table of random numbers and think about the corresponding symbol for 15 seconds. Each transmission took about 6 minutes. I did this when I was ready to go to sleep at night. We had sleeping bag hammocks that we would put underneath the couches. Two of us would go to sleep in a hammock while the other one would be on watch. I would do the experiment before going into my sleeping bag.""My experiment involved four transmission sessions during rest periods programmed into the flight. The well-known experiment in the laboratory was to use cards with the five Zener symbols, but the actual cards aren't important. It was easier for me to use random number tables than carry the physical cards. Instead, all I did was to generate four tables of 25 random numbers just using the numbers 1 to 5. Then I randomly assigned a Zener symbol to each number.

For each transmission, I would then check the particular table of random numbers and think about the corresponding symbol for 15 seconds. Each transmission took about 6 minutes. I did this when I was ready to go to sleep at night. We had sleeping bag hammocks that we would put underneath the couches. Two of us would go to sleep in a hammock while the other one would be on watch. I would do the experiment before going into my sleeping bag."

Now, my question was -- what happens next?

I think that the general public, who hears Mitchell's verbal summary on TV shows, thinks that this happens:

1. Several independent receivers back on Earth, 'listen' during the 15 second intervals in which Mitchell is doing the 'sending' of each card image, and write down their impressions of what card is being sent.

2. The written records are sent to an independent scorer who compares the 'received' sequences to the corresponding simultaneous 'sending' sequence.

3. The successful 'hits' are judged, counted, and scored.

4. Statistical analysis is used to determine the degree of chance likelihood of achieving the scores


But what the paper actually showed -- which is probably why Mitchell has NEVER released it on the Internet -- is that NONE of these things happened. There was no protocol, no scoring criteria -- Mitchell himself processed the data alone, and used several DIFFERENT scoring processes until he finally came up with one that looked significant.

While giving credit to Mitchell's initiative and creativity in conducting the experiment, any fair analyst must reject his scoring claims as totally bogus. Which does not speak well for his judgment regarding other people's claims of paranormal-type claims.


#528    JimOberg

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:53 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 November 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

I have no way of knowing that, but neither do you.

I argue that basic physics & optics make the claim IMPOSSIBLE.

Can you provide ANY photographic expert who would argue that such a sharp photo COULD be made as described?

A single real expert?


#529    booNyzarC

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:53 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 November 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

I know what I saw, Boon.  I know more than I've told on here, and it's enough.  I really have no need to argue with anyone about it.

Things are very different from the way you see them, but do I really have to say any more about this at all?  No, I don't think so.

Am I trying to convince you of anything?  No, of course not, and there is really no need for me to do so.  I know what I know and it's enough.

The post you were quoting had nothing whatsoever to do with your own sighting or the information you claim was shared with you in that completely unclassified presentation.  You already know this, so the fact that you are attempting to divert away from the actual subject matter of that post with a sob story of "poor me" is blatantly evident.  No more games McG.


#530    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:53 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 05 November 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:



But what the paper actually showed -- which is probably why Mitchell has NEVER released it on the Internet -- is that NONE of these things happened. There was no protocol, no scoring criteria -- Mitchell himself processed the data alone, and used several DIFFERENT scoring processes until he finally came up with one that looked significant.

While giving credit to Mitchell's initiative and creativity in conducting the experiment, any fair analyst must reject his scoring claims as totally bogus. Which does not speak well for his judgment regarding other people's claims of paranormal-type claims.


I can't say anything more about it, since I never read the report and had no interest in the subject to begin with.  Who wants to be psychic?  Not me.  I already know more about the world than I want to know without having ESP.


#531    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:56 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 05 November 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

The post you were quoting had nothing whatsoever to do with your own sighting or the information you claim was shared with you in that completely unclassified presentation.  You already know this, so the fact that you are attempting to divert away from the actual subject matter of that post with a sob story of "poor me" is blatantly evident.  No more games McG.

Games?  This isn't a game to me, Boon.  It never was a game, I promise you.

You don't know what happened.  You just don't KNOW.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 05 November 2012 - 03:57 AM.


#532    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:58 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 05 November 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

I argue that basic physics & optics make the claim IMPOSSIBLE.

Can you provide ANY photographic expert who would argue that such a sharp photo COULD be made as described?

A single real expert?


I don't know anything more about it than what I've said.  I have never seen the pictures and don't want to see them.  I won't even try to find out any more about it.


#533    booNyzarC

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:10 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 November 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

Games?  This isn't a game to me, Boon.  It never was a game, I promise you.

You don't know what happened.  You just don't KNOW.

At this point I don't even know what you are talking about, let alone know whatever thing you're saying I don't know.

I was assuming that you were talking about your sighting or the information that you have said was shared in that presentation all those years ago.  Is this what you are talking about or is it something else?

Because quite obviously that isn't at all what I was talking about in the post you quoted.  If this isn't a calculated game on your part, then it's a confused jumble of who knows what.  I'm going to drop the question for tonight and hope that in the days to come it all works itself out with a renewed focus on the actual subjects within the thread and forum overall.

And if you'd like to expand upon this thing you say I don't know about, please feel free.  I'm sure that there are many who would like to hear what you have to say, myself included.


#534    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:15 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 05 November 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

At this point I don't even know what you are talking about, let alone know whatever thing you're saying I don't know.

I was assuming that you were talking about your sighting or the information that you have said was shared in that presentation all those years ago.  Is this what you are talking about or is it something else?

Because quite obviously that isn't at all what I was talking about in the post you quoted.  If this isn't a calculated game on your part, then it's a confused jumble of who knows what.  


Jumbled.  Confused.  That's an understatement.  LOL

Boon, even if I could give you a scorecard you'd never be able to sort out all the players.

The "curse" that your friend Phil Klass uttered at the end of his career was more correct than you will ever know, and probably more correct than he knew.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 05 November 2012 - 04:24 AM.


#535    booNyzarC

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:24 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 November 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Jumbled.  Confused.  That's an understatement.  LOL

Alright, I guess we can agree about that at this point.

Cheers McG, hope you have a good night.


#536    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:25 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 05 November 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

Alright, I guess we can agree about that at this point.

Cheers McG, hope you have a good night.

I'll have a night anyway.


#537    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:45 AM

A long time ago, my grandfather quoted the pacifist A.J. Muste to me, which might seem like a strange thing to do for an Army officer who had been through World War II and the occupation of Germany.

Muste said "The problem after a war is with the victor. He thinks he has just proved that war and violence pay. Who will now teach him a lesson?”

If you want to understand something about all this, then that is the beginning of real wisdom.  It begins by going back to the beginning, and the dangers of many years of covert and overt warfare against totalitarian police states of various stripes, how you become more and more like them over time, almost imperceptibly, start thinking like they do.

Go back to the beginnings, not this or that UFO video.  That doesn't matter much in the big picture.

"Who will now teach him a lesson?"  And what if he doesn't want to learn his lesson?

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 05 November 2012 - 04:48 AM.


#538    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:31 AM

I know another Barry Goldwater story which has always stuck with me.  There was a young guy who had been on his staff in the Senate back in the 1960s and had worked on his 1964 campaign, the one where he got demolished by LBJ.

During the Vietnam War, though, this guy changed radically into a peacenik and hippie with his hair down to there, and one day he and a group of protesters chained themselves to the Capitol building to denounce the war.  (This wasn't me, by the way, far from it!)

At any rate, all the Senators and Representatives walked by them, either ignoring the kids or just basically saying "F. you".  That's what it was like at the time.  Only one Senator stopped to talk with this young man, and that was his former boss, the conservative, hawkish Barry Goldwater.  Of all people!  He was the only one who'd even listen to them.  

So he stopped to talk with this kid who had once worked for him, and in a very friendly way, saying "Well, you've been through some changes."

That's the kind of person Goldwater really was.


#539    bmk1245

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:52 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 November 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

As for the Gemini 5 meteorites, all I can find about them is that Cooper said one made a dent of .25 inches in the hull. I can't find anything from Pete Conrad on this subject at all, one way or the other.

http://www.google.co...qVMp9LQRMZj3VTQ
Of course you can't, and won't, because

Quote

Investigate possible micrometeorite
impact reported by crew (determined
to be "oil-canning" of structure
).
(emphasis mine, Gemini Program Mission Report. Gemini V; page 456)

Always good to check info before posting.

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#540    quillius

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:37 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 05 November 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

A long time ago, my grandfather quoted the pacifist A.J. Muste to me, which might seem like a strange thing to do for an Army officer who had been through World War II and the occupation of Germany.

Muste said "The problem after a war is with the victor. He thinks he has just proved that war and violence pay. Who will now teach him a lesson?”

If you want to understand something about all this, then that is the beginning of real wisdom.  It begins by going back to the beginning, and the dangers of many years of covert and overt warfare against totalitarian police states of various stripes, how you become more and more like them over time, almost imperceptibly, start thinking like they do.

Go back to the beginnings, not this or that UFO video.  That doesn't matter much in the big picture.

"Who will now teach him a lesson?"  And what if he doesn't want to learn his lesson?


best sentence over the last 36 pages IMO





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