Lt_Ripley Posted July 7, 2009 #1 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) I was watching a bit about death row. and remembered how many because of testing now have been proven innocent who are in jail after years of incarceration. It made me think of all those in favor of the death penalty. how fast their views would change if they were innocent and found themselves on the other side of the bars ?? that includes myself... Is the death penalty worth it if even one innocent life is taken ?? - I was going to put in as a last choice .... ' am posting from death row' ...lol ... but wanted to be a bit serious ! Edited July 7, 2009 by Lt_Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.U.P. Posted July 7, 2009 #2 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) We need to be tougher on crime in general. The only real way to prevent people from committing crime is through fear. Fear of death is certainly one way to stop a murder. Edited July 7, 2009 by I.C.U.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted July 7, 2009 #3 Share Posted July 7, 2009 We need to be tougher in crime in general. The only real way to prevent people from committing crime is through fear. Fear of death is certainly one way to stop a murder. Hasn't worked so far........ oh wait that was a play on words got ya and ya makes no sense as far as a deterrent to murder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted July 7, 2009 #4 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) We need to be tougher in crime in general. The only real way to prevent people from committing crime is through fear. Fear of death is certainly one way to stop a murder. I 100% totally agree with you Cuz not many of these sick gits fear being put in a cell as fast.......PLUS ...so many have gotten out of jail, only to REPEAT the same crimes again and again I am in FULL support of the death penalty........and I really do not give a flying monkies who frowns at me for it....... Edited July 7, 2009 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.U.P. Posted July 7, 2009 #5 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Hasn't worked so far........ oh wait that was a play on words got ya and ya makes no sense as far as a deterrent to murder LOL I disagree. How do you propose we stop murderers? I 100% totally agree with you Cuz not many of these sick gits fear being put in a cell as fast.......PLUS ...so many have gotten out of jail, only to REPEAT the same crimes again and again I am in FULL support of the death penalty........and I really do not give a flying monkies who frows at me for it....... How many people that oppose the death penalty do you suppose have ever lost a loved one to murder? Probably none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted July 7, 2009 #6 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I was watching a bit about death row. and remembered how many because of testing now have been proven innocent who are in jail after years of incarceration. It made me think of all those in favor of the death penalty. how fast their views would change if they were innocent and found themselves on the other side of the bars ?? that includes myself... Is the death penalty worth it if even one innocent life is taken ?? - I was going to put in as a last choice .... ' am posting from death row' ...lol ... but wanted to be a bit serious ! If I were on death row......and was really innocent.yea I would be sad and scared....... But see a follow up question would be - Why me? why was I even convicted?.......I mean if so many innocent people get put on death row....why were they even picked out to take full blame...? Framed? hmm possible I guess If you walk into a jail house, and asked each inmate - are you guilty or innocent? <---I would bank on it that the majority would say - INNOCENT LOL I fully would support the death penalty if the trial was able to produce full proof....real hard core - non deniable evidence, that clearly says he or she are guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted July 7, 2009 #7 Share Posted July 7, 2009 LOL I disagree. How do you propose we stop murderers? How many people that oppose the death penalty do you suppose have ever lost a loved one to murder? Probably none. Good point...but I can't give an answer to that...because I do not know If I went mad and killed my own kid.....I would deserve to be sent to death row and die a slow painful death... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted July 7, 2009 Author #8 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) I see so far everyone justifying the death penalty... and I myself lean towards it ..( however it doesn't dissuade crime at all ..... I think a visible brand on the forehead and a missing digit would work better .. ) but it doesn't answer ... Is the death penalty worth it if even one innocent life is taken ?? what if that innocent life is yours or your child ? how many people go to prison for crimes they didn't commit ? we've all seen people who have served sentences let out after evidence has shown they were innocent. Edited July 7, 2009 by Lt_Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.U.P. Posted July 7, 2009 #9 Share Posted July 7, 2009 These days with DNA evidence and forensics, there isn't much chance of anyone innocent being convicted of murder. I think the death penalty would save more lives in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted July 7, 2009 Author #10 Share Posted July 7, 2009 LOL I disagree. How do you propose we stop murderers? How many people that oppose the death penalty do you suppose have ever lost a loved one to murder? Probably none. I'm starting to rethink my position on the death penalty .. it serves no purpose. People who have lost someone to murder say that even when the murderer is caught .. and excecuted it doesn't change anything for them. Most say it's great they are off the street and can't kill anymore but personally it doesn't help them with the issue that a loved one is gone. it doesn't make it feel any better. have you lost a loved one to murder ? and did they get the death penalty ? are you and the law 100% sure they did it ? would you feel ok if you found out the person who was put to death for that crime was after the fact actually innocent ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted July 7, 2009 Author #11 Share Posted July 7, 2009 These days with DNA evidence and forensics, there isn't much chance of anyone innocent being convicted of murder. I think the death penalty would save more lives in the long run. but it still isn't 100% , if 1000 are guilty ......... what about that one guy who is innocent ? tough crappola ? what if he or she was you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted July 7, 2009 #12 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) I see so far everyone justifying the death penalty... and I myself lean towards it ..( however it doesn't dissuade crime at all ..... I think a visible brand on the forehead and a missing digit would work better .. ) but it doesn't answer ... Is the death penalty worth it if even one innocent life is taken ?? what if that innocent life is yours or your child ? how many people go to prison for crimes they didn't commit ? we've all seen people who have served sentences let out after evidence has shown they were innocent. Well I have answered if it were my own life, I stated that I would feel sad and scared........I guess the same would be if it were my own child too But see, if it were my own kid..I would wreck my brain wondering why she was even arrested..there would be so much going through my own mind Innocent people get killed every day in life..........I know that doesnt justify an innocents life on death row.........but these thing can happen I would dare say - more people that get death row are most likely proven to be guilty, than there would be to those who are innocent Which is why I said before - I would go for it, if they had solid proof of the crime and all real hard evidence points to the person that stands to be convicted..oh yes I do support the death penalty Lets face it...look at how many have done the time - god out and repeated more of the same I watch a documentary (Ross Kemp vistits inmates in max security prisions)..he found out, that due to the povery and crime on the streets in Africa ( I think it was that place)...mainly all gang related killings..He found out, that a lot of them who were realeased, DID in fact go and commit the same crimes again.....Their reasons were because, they got free food and shelter in a jail... Edited July 7, 2009 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHuman Posted July 7, 2009 #13 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Once again with this thing.Ugh. Kk, my position. I don't believe a government should have the power of life/death like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.U.P. Posted July 7, 2009 #14 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I'm starting to rethink my position on the death penalty .. it serves no purpose. People who have lost someone to murder say that even when the murderer is caught .. and excecuted it doesn't change anything for them. Most say it's great they are off the street and can't kill anymore but personally it doesn't help them with the issue that a loved one is gone. it doesn't make it feel any better. But what if it prevented future murders? have you lost a loved one to murder ? and did they get the death penalty ? are you and the law 100% sure they did it ? would you feel ok if you found out the person who was put to death for that crime was after the fact actually innocent ? Well I am not a jury. If a jury finds an innocent person guilty and puts them to death....then tough luck. but it still isn't 100% , if 1000 are guilty ......... what about that one guy who is innocent ? tough crappola ? what if he or she was you ? If he or she was me, then that would be ok. If my death prevented someone else from dying in the future, then I am ok with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattshark Posted July 7, 2009 #15 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) How many people that oppose the death penalty do you suppose have ever lost a loved one to murder? Probably none. Actually that is not true, it has not been found to to help the bereaved in anyway, in fact the extra death commonly makes them feel worse. My personal view is that murder by the state is still murder, you cannot condone killing as a condemnation of killing as it is pure hypocrisy. Secondly, you can never excuse every innocent person who is put to death. Just to add 99.999% of murders are spur of the moment and usually crimes of passion. Very few are serial killers. Edited July 7, 2009 by Mattshark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattshark Posted July 7, 2009 #16 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) Lets face it...look at how many have done the time - god out and repeated more of the same Tiny minority. And again, you can't condone killing to condemn a killing. It is no better than condoning murder. Edited July 7, 2009 by Mattshark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldier4death Posted July 7, 2009 #17 Share Posted July 7, 2009 We must first set up a justice system that works. And I can never see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.U.P. Posted July 7, 2009 #18 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) Actually that is not true, it has not been found to to help the bereaved in anyway, in fact the extra death commonly makes them feel worse. It wouldn't make me feel worse. My personal view is that murder by the state is still murder, you cannot condone killing as a condemnation of killing as it is pure hypocrisy. An eye for an eye. Secondly, you can never excuse every innocent person who is put to death. So then we both agree that we need an undeniable body of evidence to convict someone of murder. Just to add 99.999% of murders are spur of the moment and usually crimes of passion. Very few are serial killers. A crime of passion is still a crime. And that is nonsense. where did you get the 99.999% from? What about murders during robbery, or gang-related murders, or drug-related murders, or murders of jealousy? I'm surprised MS. We hardly disagree on anything. Edited July 7, 2009 by I.C.U.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattshark Posted July 7, 2009 #19 Share Posted July 7, 2009 It wouldn't make me feel worse. An eye for an eye. So then we both agree that we need an undeniable body of evidence to convict someone of murder. A crime of passion is still a crime. And that is nonsense. where did you get the 99.999% from? What about murders during robbery, or gang-related murders, or drug-related murders, or murders of jealousy? I got it from my mums work as a social worker actually. It is how most murders occur. It is just the type that are less publicised. And yes it is a crime, but then killing that person won't make anything better. You need an undeniable body of evidence to convict anyone technically. If you think killing someone is fine then that is no better than the murder. It is the same thing. And if you are going with bible quotes, turn the other cheek and thou shalt not kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARAB0D Posted July 7, 2009 #20 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I voted "warranted if even innocent..." - because such mistakes have statistical significance. The Law must protect the entire society, not an individual person. Life sentence is not much less cruel than death penalty, and there are innocent serving life term too. Meanwhile the criminals know only that no one can put them to death, so they gamble with the own life without additional worries, got caught - well, too bad, but I tried. No risk! I would use milder sentences in general, as at first crime many people just make a mistake. For most "light", non-violent crimes I would do some 3-6 month term in jail (for education) with, say, 5 years of parole. For repeated crime, or for any second crime I would also allow the same 6-12 months with 5 years parole period - but if a person does parole violation and/or commits any crime again, I would consider them a social pest and straight put this person down by the least painful method. "You got no spare lives left, restart required". This way the jails would be empty and all crooks would wear the bracelets the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattshark Posted July 7, 2009 #21 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I voted "warranted if even innocent..." - because such mistakes have statistical significance. The Law must protect the entire society, not an individual person. Life sentence is not much less cruel than death penalty, and there are innocent serving life term too. Meanwhile the criminals know only that no one can put them to death, so they gamble with the own life without additional worries, got caught - well, too bad, but I tried. No risk! I would use milder sentences in general, as at first crime many people just make a mistake. For most "light", non-violent crimes I would do some 3-6 month term in jail (for education) with, say, 5 years of parole. For repeated crime, or for any second crime I would also allow the same 6-12 months with 5 years parole period - but if a person does parole violation and/or commits any crime again, I would consider them a social pest and straight put this person down by the least painful method. "You got no spare lives left, restart required". This way the jails would be empty and all crooks would wear the bracelets the same time. That is rather callous isn't it, what if that mistake was your family or friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.U.P. Posted July 7, 2009 #22 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I got it from my mums work as a social worker actually. It is how most murders occur. It is just the type that are less publicised. And yes it is a crime, but then killing that person won't make anything better. Murders occur over love and money. Either way someone dies, and I don't see the difference. If you think killing someone is fine then that is no better than the murder. I would disagree. When someone murders another, it is for personal gain. When someone is put to death for being convicted of murder, that is called the justice system. It is the same thing. And if you are going with bible quotes, turn the other cheek and thou shalt not kill. Unless it's justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted July 7, 2009 #23 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Tiny minority. And again, you can't condone killing to condemn a killing. It is no better than condoning murder. Tiny minority? well that remains to be sceen Matt And I can condone the death penalty if I want to......as I beleive in many cases, the punishment should fit the crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattshark Posted July 7, 2009 #24 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Murders occur over love and money. Either way someone dies, and I don't see the difference. I would disagree. When someone murders another, it is for personal gain. When someone is put to death for being convicted of murder, that is called the justice system. Unless it's justified. The difference is that person is not actually a danger and seriously regrets the offence. It is not for personal gain and it is usually not premeditated. Its not justice, it is revenge and it is hypocritical. It is no better than the crime itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted July 7, 2009 Author #25 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Criminologists' Views on Deterrence and the Death Penalty A survey of experts, including some of the most pre-eminent criminologists in the country from Fellows in the American Society of Criminology; winners of the American Society of Criminology’s prestigious Southerland Award; and recent presidents of the American Society of Criminology. from the American Society of Criminology, the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences, and the Law and Society Association showed that the overwhelming majority did not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. Eighty-eight percent of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide, according to a new study published today in Northwestern University School of Law’s Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology authored by Professor Michael Radelet, Chair of the Department of Sociology at the University of Colorado-Boulder, and Traci Lacock, an attorney and Sociology graduate student in Boulder. Similarly, 87% of the expert criminologists believe that abolition of the death penalty would not have any significant effect on murder rates. In addition, 75% of the respondents agree that “debates about the death penalty distract Congress and state legislatures from focusing on real solutions to crime problems.” The survey relied on questionnaires completed by the most pre-eminent criminologists in the country, including: Fellows in the American Society of Criminology; winners of the American Society of Criminology’s prestigious Southerland Award; and recent presidents of the American Society of Criminology. The American Society of Criminology is the top professional organization of criminologists in the world. Respondents were not asked for their personal opinion about the wisdom of the death penalty, but instead to answer the questions only on the basis of their understandings of the empirical research. (M. Radelet and T. Lacock, DO EXECUTIONS LOWER HOMICIDE RATES?: THE VIEWS OF LEADING CRIMINOLOGISTS, 2009) For more information on the Views of Criminologists, click here http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-abou...d-death-penalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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