1579 replies to this topic

[cormac mac airt]

kampz, on 07 December 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

People can't even agree on what Plato was trying to explain. I bet there was civilization at or around the mouth of the Mediterranean during 9,600 BC or whatever. I'm about to move onto the Money Pit in Oak Island, Nova Scotia. Atlantis is hurting my head. Thanks for your opinions.

Believers can't agree on what Plato was trying to explain, because they want it to be a true place. Science has already shown that Plato's Atlantis didn't exist.

As to a 'civilization' then you must have an extremely loose definition of the word, since its anthropological definition (which is the only meaningful definition) has certain criteria attached to it. Criteria that none of the cultures of the western Mediterranean ever met, particularly c.9600 BC.

cormac

[LRW]

cormac mac airt, on 07 December 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

Science has already shown that Plato's Atlantis didn't exist.

Science has shown that sunken parts of lands containing artifacts exist. Doggerland etc, To say there is not the possibility of more sunken lands is naive to say the least.

[cormac mac airt]

LRW, on 07 December 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

Science has shown that sunken parts of lands containing artifacts exist. Doggerland etc, To say there is not the possibility of more sunken lands is naive to say the least.

Which is not what was said. Short on English comprehension, are you?

cormac

[Harte]

Cormac, surely you realize that any land that sinks is automatically annexed by the Atlanteans of today.

Harte

[LRW]

cormac mac airt, on 07 December 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

Which is not what was said. Short on English comprehension, are you?

cormac

So you still think there is a possibility for plato's atlantis? given that science has shown that sunken parts of lands with artifacts still exist. You will probably say no, directly contradicting yourself, being the skeptic that you are. If a murder is committed and there was no evidence, that does not mean the murder did not happen. So, the case remains open to all types of possibilities.  

[cormac mac airt]

LRW, on 07 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

So you still think there is a possibility for plato's atlantis? given that science has shown that sunken parts of lands with artifacts still exist. You will probably say no, directly contradicting yourself, being the skeptic that you are. If a murder is committed and there was no evidence, that does not mean the murder did not happen. So, the case remains open to all types of possibilities.  

No, I'm saying they are two separate issues. That there may have been cultures that existed in areas that are now submerged, while likely, does not automatically equate to an entire island civilization (Atlantis) having done so.

While I'm not contradicting myself, you have shown a complete lack of understanding the distinction between the loss of a culture as opposed to that of a full-blown civilization. And in an area which has already shown that no such geological evidence for its disappearance ever existed.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 07 December 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[LRW]

cormac mac airt, on 07 December 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

No, I'm saying they are two separate issues. That there may have been cultures that existed in areas that are now submerged, while likely, does not automatically equate to an entire island civilization (Atlantis) having done so.

While I'm not contradicting myself, you have shown a complete lack of understanding the distinction between the loss of a culture as opposed to that of a full-blown civilization. And in an area which has already shown that no such geological evidence for its disappearance ever existed.

cormac

A culture does not necessarily have to be a whole civilisation, the numbers that possess a strange and unique culture living on a remote island don't have to be huge in number.

[cormac mac airt]

LRW, on 07 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

A culture does not necessarily have to be a whole civilisation, the numbers that possess a strange and unique culture living on a remote island don't have to be huge in number.

True but since Plato give his Atlantis specific traits with a rather huge population, particularly for the times and at a location which is not evidenced geologically, then it rather makes your objections meaningless. In short, Plato himself gave enough information to invalidate your objections.

cormac

[LRW]

cormac mac airt, on 07 December 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

True but since Plato give his Atlantis specific traits with a rather huge population, particularly for the times and at a location which is not evidenced geologically, then it rather makes your objections meaningless. In short, Plato himself gave enough information to invalidate your objections.

cormac

You are very closed minded and not flexible with theories. I was implying that the survivors of a possible atlantis catastrophe found themselves washed up on remote islands and passed their knowledge on to others, in reality when there are survivors then a stem or root of that civilisation has survived.  

Read about flood myths.  

The antediluvian (or pre-diluvian) period – meaning "before the deluge" – is the period referred to in the Bible between the Creation of the Earth and the Deluge (flood) in the biblical cosmology. The narrative takes up chapters 1-6 (excluding the flood narrative) of Genesis. The term found its way into early geology and lingered in science until late Victorian era.

Since the bible plagiarised and twisted ancient source materials, then that flood myth must have came from somewhere.  Also many tribes worldwide have flood myths.

The name Teotihuacan, has been theoretically translated from the Nahua language and means "The place where men become gods." The belief was that Teotihuacan was where the great gods held council after the destruction of the island known to them as Nahuatl Aztlatlan. Aztec belief was that their origins lay in this island of plenty, eastwards across the Atlantic. Aztlatlan was its name, and it's inhabitants were known as the people of Aztlan! aka Atlantis etc.

[cormac mac airt]

LRW, on 07 December 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

You are very closed minded and not flexible with theories. I was implying that the survivors of a possible atlantis catastrophe found themselves washed up on remote islands and passed their knowledge on to others, in reality when there are survivors then a stem or root of that civilisation has survived.  

Read about flood myths.  

The antediluvian (or pre-diluvian) period – meaning "before the deluge" – is the period referred to in the Bible between the Creation of the Earth and the Deluge (flood) in the biblical cosmology. The narrative takes up chapters 1-6 (excluding the flood narrative) of Genesis. The term found its way into early geology and lingered in science until late Victorian era.

Since the bible plagiarised and twisted ancient source materials, then that flood myth must have came from somewhere.  Also many tribes worldwide have flood myths.

The name Teotihuacan, has been theoretically translated from the Nahua language and means "The place where men become gods." The belief was that Teotihuacan was where the great gods held council after the destruction of the island known to them as Nahuatl Aztlatlan. Aztec belief was that their origins lay in this island of plenty, eastwards across the Atlantic. Aztlatlan was its name, and it's inhabitants were known as the people of Aztlan! aka Atlantis etc.

There's no theory there. Only speculation based on what you want to be true. Might make for a nice story, but that's the only thing it's good for.

If you'd actually do some research, you'd already know that Aztlan was believed to have originally been to the north of Mexico, NOT in the Atlantic.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 07 December 2012 - 11:11 PM.

[LRW]

cormac mac airt, on 07 December 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

If you'd actually do some research, you'd already know that Aztlan was believed to have originally been to the north of Mexico, NOT in the Atlantic.

cormac

Believed? yes belief in something does not necessarily make that theory true though. I might believe in things, but that does not necessarily mean my belief is true either. However, i do see correlation between pyramid constructions, i believe there must have been a prototype culture that influenced the pyramid culture.

South america.


Asia.


Africa.



White Gods with red hair teaching knowledge and pyramid constructions being constructed in different continents. There was a prototype origin and that origin might not be of earth.

Lol, i love that one. If the boring and the mundane seems unbelievable, then the spectacular and controversial must be true.  

[cormac mac airt]

LRW, on 07 December 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Believed? yes belief in something does not necessarily make that theory true though. I might believe in things, but that does not necessarily mean my belief is true either. However, i do see correlation between pyramid constructions, i believe there must have been a prototype culture that influenced the pyramid culture.

~SNIP~

Yes, believed. By the actual people involved. Which again makes your speculation meaningless.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 07 December 2012 - 11:38 PM.

[kampz]

"White Gods with red hair teaching knowledge and pyramid constructions being constructed in different continents. There was a prototype origin and that origin might not be of earth."

Why not manifest or create "very intelligent" humans. How do some of these guys in the past get there ideas? Examples Nostradamus, Leonardo, Newton, Einstein, Galileo and Telsa.

There's more evidence of Bigfoot, Jesus, Mohammed, UFO's and Ghosts then an intelligent civilization in our Universe creating Pyramids on Earth.

What I'm saying there's a possibility that there were "White Gods with Red hair teaching knowledge and pyramid constructions in different continents." But they also might not of been "Gods" at all. Just another very intelligent human like Jesus.

[Harte]

kampz, on 08 December 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

"White Gods with red hair teaching knowledge and pyramid constructions being constructed in different continents. There was a prototype origin and that origin might not be of earth."

Why not manifest or create "very intelligent" humans. How do some of these guys in the past get there ideas? Examples Nostradamus, Leonardo, Newton, Einstein, Galileo and Telsa.

Better yet, why not provide some evidence that some ancient cultured worshipped "White gods with red hair..."  instead of just making the comment?

The "white gods" thing post-dates the Spanish Conquest.

Care to speculate on why that is the case?

Harte

[kampz]

Because people went to the extent of crusades and how big religion is/was. People keep telling me that Atlantis never existed without giving others evidence other then Plato is a liar and a lot others.

If you want me to speculate it's because of Bigfoot and Religion.

"White Gods" thing post dates the Spanish Conquest. Yeah and I bet it's because they looked the same.

Back to Atlantis.. - If they're a strong Naval force at the time... Morocco and Spain have the most wood. You need wood to build ships. I'm leaning toward Morocco or Spain. Like were Gibraltar is like Plato said. Really? Nothing has been found? Hmm

Edited by kampz, 09 December 2012 - 06:47 AM.