423 replies to this topic

[theSOURCE]

YOUR MOTHER SEWS SOCKS THAT SMELL!!!

Sorry, got possessed for a moment there.

[psyche101]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 20 February 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

Thanks for reminding me to buy a book on experiences like that. It's a great collection of a lot of examples. There's no doubt that mass hysteria is and was a real phenomenon. It explains some alleged paranormal events. It doesn't explain all of them, though. Mass hysteria and true experience can exist side by side in the world. Both can be real, just like physicians encounter hypochondriacs as well as genuinely sick individuals. We live in a vast universe, full of myriad possibilities, where x does not necessarily show that y must have the same root cause.

Does not the fact that many have been explained, and more all the time indicate that all just may be explainable? Do you find an individuals response to an event alone good enough reason to believe that they have seen something as they describe it and if so, is this not a very minimal percentage? Could this not be explained by prosaic explanations if the number is small?

Edited by psyche101, 20 February 2013 - 05:55 AM.

[Esoteric Toad]

ERGOT!  Do not forget ergot.

[seeder]

psyche101, on 20 February 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

Not all of them, many corroborated to an extent or we would have thousands of individual claims. In any case you see no parallels so it seem pointless continuing with that example. How about the dancing plague of 1518?

Yeh I heard of that some years back, forgot about till you mentioned it and just looked it up again

http://en.wikipedia...._Plague_of_1518

seems the physicians encouraged the act.

Also kinda reminds me of when I got into the rave culture  ..hehe

[Detective Mystery 2013]

psyche101, on 20 February 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Does not the fact that many have been explained, and more all the time indicate that all just may be explainable? Do you find an individuals response to an event alone good enough reason to believe that they have seen something as they describe it and if so, is this not a very minimal percentage? Could this not be explained by prosaic explanations if the number is small?

All events have explanations. It just takes longer to find some than others. In the event that I mentioned, a pastor and his congregation witnessed the same thing in the same place at the same time. It wasn't just one person. One or two individuals could have misinterpreted it. A uniform agreement on it from all of the congregants is another thing, and that agreement decreases the odds that it is prosaic. Some experiences are caused by prosaic things, but this was not one of them. In this particular case, unlike many questionable "exorcisms", a cigar indeed was a cigar.

[psyche101]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 21 February 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

All events have explanations. It just takes longer to find some than others. In the event that I mentioned, a pastor and his congregation witnessed the same thing in the same place at the same time. It wasn't just one person. One or two individuals could have misinterpreted it. A uniform agreement on it from all of the congregants is another thing, and that agreement decreases the odds that it is prosaic. Some experiences are caused by prosaic things, but this was not one of them. In this particular case, unlike many questionable "exorcisms", a cigar indeed was a cigar.

But they were all of the same belief and culture. If you outline the circumstance with detail, it may well become apparent that it was something they all might expect to see?

[R4z3rsPar4d0x]

seeder, on 20 February 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Yeh I heard of that some years back, forgot about till you mentioned it and just looked it up again

http://en.wikipedia...._Plague_of_1518

seems the physicians encouraged the act.

Also kinda reminds me of when I got into the rave culture  ..hehe

It seems highly odd that they would encourage the act. But thats just my opinion

[Detective Mystery 2013]

psyche101, on 21 February 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

But they were all of the same belief and culture. If you outline the circumstance with detail, it may well become apparent that it was something they all might expect to see?

It was physical evidence, not individual interpretations. The entities looked like black clouds or black smoke. That was extremely dramatic evidence. It wasn't like a Bob Larson stage show.

Edited by Detective Mystery 2013, 22 February 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[DingoLingo]

theSOURCE, on 20 February 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

YOUR MOTHER SEWS SOCKS THAT SMELL!!!

Sorry, got possessed for a moment there.

YOUR MOTHER SEWS SOCKS THAT SMELL!!!

sorry possessed for a moment there by alien demons

awww.. wingdings dont work

Edited by DingoLingo, 22 February 2013 - 03:43 AM.

[psyche101]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 22 February 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

It was physical evidence, not individual interpretations. The entities looked like black clouds or black smoke. That was extremely dramatic evidence. It wasn't like a Bob Larson stage show.

Sorry. I am somewhat confused, did you not say it was the witness expressions that you were convinced by? I do not mean to make light of your information, sorry if it comes across that way, I am just trying to understand. I have no belief in the afterlife whatsoever, I am not sure if that is the stumbling block for me here.

I used to live with someone who reckoned they saw Ghosts, at night sometimes he would swear a portion of a corner, or part of a room contained a black(er) part in the shadows, which he claimed was a ghost or some such, yet when I looked, the darkness seemed quite uniform. I could see his version of events decribed as above, but to a neutral observer, it was nothing. If everyone in the congregation was expecting to see something, and they all had the exact same faith, attending the same Church, and I assume regularly, would they not all expect to see the same thing? Do pictures or the like exist to confirm the black smoke/Cloud or pure testimony?

I know in my Fathers final months, he had many hallucinations, and being a religious man who had fought in WWII he described some astounding scenes, sometimes like a real life situation, sometimes like ghosts, and sometimes in 2D like a movie playing on a wall, but he saw these things as if everyone could. Since he passed, I have completely lost any notion of faith in an afterlife, but he does continually remind me that our minds are capable of influencing ourselves to see what is in out minds in what appears to be real time. It's not though, I witnessed many of them. He said I had some little girl following me around, which was pretty spooky at the time I suppose, but now I know it was someone from his past, perhaps a lost memory of a childhood sweetheart, or a lost sister, as he did lose contact with his family through WWII and as far as I know, never regained it. Watching his demise was a powerful and life changing experience and it was a major factor in reinforcing a skeptical perspective on all subjects.

[Detective Mystery 2013]

psyche101, on 22 February 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

Sorry. I am somewhat confused, did you not say it was the witness expressions that you were convinced by? I do not mean to make light of your information, sorry if it comes across that way, I am just trying to understand. I have no belief in the afterlife whatsoever, I am not sure if that is the stumbling block for me here.

I used to live with someone who reckoned they saw Ghosts, at night sometimes he would swear a portion of a corner, or part of a room contained a black(er) part in the shadows, which he claimed was a ghost or some such, yet when I looked, the darkness seemed quite uniform. I could see his version of events decribed as above, but to a neutral observer, it was nothing. If everyone in the congregation was expecting to see something, and they all had the exact same faith, attending the same Church, and I assume regularly, would they not all expect to see the same thing? Do pictures or the like exist to confirm the black smoke/Cloud or pure testimony?

I know in my Fathers final months, he had many hallucinations, and being a religious man who had fought in WWII he described some astounding scenes, sometimes like a real life situation, sometimes like ghosts, and sometimes in 2D like a movie playing on a wall, but he saw these things as if everyone could. Since he passed, I have completely lost any notion of faith in an afterlife, but he does continually remind me that our minds are capable of influencing ourselves to see what is in out minds in what appears to be real time. It's not though, I witnessed many of them. He said I had some little girl following me around, which was pretty spooky at the time I suppose, but now I know it was someone from his past, perhaps a lost memory of a childhood sweetheart, or a lost sister, as he did lose contact with his family through WWII and as far as I know, never regained it. Watching his demise was a powerful and life changing experience and it was a major factor in reinforcing a skeptical perspective on all subjects.

I never saw the event. A parson and his daughter told me. They were very honest, and the man's congregation witnessed the event too. I also met the man who once was possessed. He joined the church after the exorcism. I doubt that it was a mass hallucination. They saw the same thing at the same time and same place. It was a spontaneous experience that was witnessed in real time. The malignant entities had physical, tangible forms. They were as visible as clouds or smoke. The deliverance wasn't like some faked, staged "exorcism" like some questionable moments at a Bob Larson event. BTW, your civil tone was much noted.

[theSOURCE]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 22 February 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

I never saw the event. A parson and his daughter told me. They were very honest, and the man's congregation witnessed the event too. I also met the man who once was possessed. He joined the church after the exorcism. I doubt that it was a mass hallucination. They saw the same thing at the same time and same place. It was a spontaneous experience that was witnessed in real time. The malignant entities had physical, tangible forms. They were as visible as clouds or smoke. The deliverance wasn't like some faked, staged "exorcism" like some questionable moments at a Bob Larson event. BTW, your civil tone was much noted.

Much as you're convinced by everyone's honesty regarding the event (whatever it may have been) you are unfortunately not in possession of any physical evidence. All you have are the anecdotes of people with a strong religious bias who have interpreted what they saw as a paranormal occurrence.

Testimony, no matter how convincing, should not be taken at face value, otherwise you risk closing yourself off from searching for other possibilities. That is what belief is all about.

[Tesla II]

Detective Mystery 2013, on 19 February 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

Evidence would be automatically rejected by debunkers. They wouldn't even look at it. Skeptics would have open minds, though, and they would go where the proof took them, even if it injured their sacred cows. True skeptics don't worship at the altars of Dawkins and Randi.

Sorry for going offtopic but i think there was a visitation of some kind in last 60-70 years or just a sighting of a actual ETV. You see at first i thought it was all about secret black budget project - a craft capable of many things. I was writting a detailed blog from Nazi times to now, evolution of the craft and technology behind it..But something did come up and i think that not all were ETV but i think there is a chance that some few very few were. The connection begun with first A-bomb going off, that blast emitted incredible amount of energy and at the time i think someone picked up that shockwave, as like we would from any other planet we are listening to via SETI and many others.. Imagine a nuclear blast on Mars or any other planet even from out of our solar system... we would detected it for sure. But fortunally i guess habitants our there are not so foolish as we are.

The sightings of the secret military crafts begun at post ww2 times shortly after paperclip ended. Hell there is even video material showing their so called " failure " to do it. But as technology evolved so did the idea for the revival of such craft. There are trillions of dollars going missing every year for as long as i remember, and people dont know where they go, people who are in charge of those budgets.

So at bottom line i think i'll repeat I THINK there is more to this than just UFO sightings. There are theirs and there are ours.

[Tesla II]

I cannot prove any ETV visit nor military project both are strickly classified fields of research, we do get leaks here and there but not all are true mostly false. But for now black triangle is very true in my opinion i based that on history of the initial idea and minds behind it.

[Detective Mystery 2013]

theSOURCE, on 22 February 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

Much as you're convinced by everyone's honesty regarding the event (whatever it may have been) you are unfortunately not in possession of any physical evidence. All you have are the anecdotes of people with a strong religious bias who have interpreted what they saw as a paranormal occurrence.

Testimony, no matter how convincing, should not be taken at face value, otherwise you risk closing yourself off from searching for other possibilities. That is what belief is all about.

I know and trust the witnesses. I don't need a laboratory experiment to believe them. I don't need physical evidence. In fact, it's nigh impossible to have such. I can't present dissipated "clouds" or "smoke" to an expert so that he can write a paper for a scientific journal. As a rule, I doubt such stories. This is an exception. Credible witnesses can substitute for investigations that may not be possible to accomplish.