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The United Nations Wants Your Guns America

gun control un united nations arms trade treaty arms treaty

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#226    Myles

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:43 PM

View Postprotostar, on 23 July 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

Myles, I've no experience with racoons, but if you are dispatching vermin at very close range then have you considered an air rifle? I would think that a .22 pellet would do the job up close with no risk of a ricochet from a bullet.I know a few pest control people who use them. Maybe a coons skull is too hard though idk.
That's a good suggestion.   I'm not sure.   I'll look into it.


#227    psychoticmike

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:44 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 22 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Guns are given away for free now in the States? I didn't know about that...

You can get other things for protection. You don't really need a gun. Things like pepper spray might actually be much more effective in a lot of scenarios.

@psychoticmike:
If you argue like that, private households should be able to obtain nukes. You don't get the point. We do ont want to stop people from killing each other (you are right, that's impossible), but we want to minimise gun related accidents, gun crime, and the possibility for a criminal to obtain a gun, and most important gun safety, and strict regulations for private gun ownership.

so if a foreign country just happens to invade mine, i should defend myself with a can of pepper spray? what if my own government trys to harm me or restrict my freedom or rights? pepper spray is the answer for that to? sorry, but no. theres nothing wrong with my arguement besides your misinterpretation of it. there is a world of difference between owning fire arms and owning nukes. Actually, i do get the point, but I don't think you get mine. You don't want to stop people from killing each other? well isn't That the problem, and not the way they do it? criminals already have guns and restricting private gun ownership is not gonna change that. its only gonna create victims out of people that can not protect themselves against anybody who does have guns or any kind of weapon. if you want to reduce gun crime you have to reduce the conditions that cause crime. did you even check out my link? did you watch any of that video? you should.


#228    ZaraKitty

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:02 AM

View Postpsychoticmike, on 23 July 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

so if a foreign country just happens to invade mine, i should defend myself with a can of pepper spray? what if my own government trys to harm me or restrict my freedom or rights? pepper spray is the answer for that to? sorry, but no. theres nothing wrong with my arguement besides your misinterpretation of it. there is a world of difference between owning fire arms and owning nukes. Actually, i do get the point, but I don't think you get mine. You don't want to stop people from killing each other? well isn't That the problem, and not the way they do it? criminals already have guns and restricting private gun ownership is not gonna change that. its only gonna create victims out of people that can not protect themselves against anybody who does have guns or any kind of weapon. if you want to reduce gun crime you have to reduce the conditions that cause crime. did you even check out my link? did you watch any of that video? you should.

Nice paranoia, bro. Goes well with your knowledge of the world.

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#229    ZaraKitty

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:04 AM

View Postpsychoticmike, on 23 July 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

so if a foreign country just happens to invade mine, i should defend myself with a can of pepper spray? what if my own government trys to harm me or restrict my freedom or rights? pepper spray is the answer for that to? sorry, but no. theres nothing wrong with my arguement besides your misinterpretation of it. there is a world of difference between owning fire arms and owning nukes. Actually, i do get the point, but I don't think you get mine. You don't want to stop people from killing each other? well isn't That the problem, and not the way they do it? criminals already have guns and restricting private gun ownership is not gonna change that. its only gonna create victims out of people that can not protect themselves against anybody who does have guns or any kind of weapon. if you want to reduce gun crime you have to reduce the conditions that cause crime. did you even check out my link? did you watch any of that video? you should.

Also, their army will have superior weapons, you have to rely on your own army who also has superior weapons.

Aus, Germany, England COMBINED gun deaths a year are 500 (from memory)
America ALONE is 9000.

It's not the criminals.
It's the avaliablilty of guns.
Hurr durr math.

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#230    Czero 101

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:37 AM

View PostZaraKitty, on 24 July 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:


Aus, Germany, England COMBINED gun deaths a year are 500 (from memory)
America ALONE is 9000.
Actually, if you go back to post #197 I provided a source that shows that in 2010, there were 31,513 deaths by firearms in the USA.

Of those 31,513 deaths, 19,308 were suicides, 11,015 were homicides; and then another 600 were accidental fatalities. .[SOURCE]

Quote

It's not the criminals.
It's the avaliablilty of guns.
Its actually both, and the point has been well made that if there weren't guns, there would be some other "weapon of choice" - swords, rocks, big pointy sticks, what have you.

The point that has still not been properly addressed, however, is that the UN Treaty under discussion HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TAKING GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF AMERICANS WHO OBTAINED THEM LEGALLY.





Cz

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#231    Charlie Prime

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:38 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 17 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

...Then again Im talking to a person who lives in a country where you can be put in a cage for talking about things your government doesnt find political correct.

Ouch.  :D


I admit, it is difficult for me to understand the slave mentality these people have.  I intellectually understand how it is the result of fifteen thousand hours of government school training and countless more of media programming and social conditioning, but on a gut level, it seems so vile as to be impossible.


#232    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:54 PM

View PostCzero 101, on 24 July 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

The point that has still not been properly addressed, however, is that the UN Treaty under discussion HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TAKING GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF AMERICANS WHO OBTAINED THEM LEGALLY.

Don't you dare use logic or the truth when my second 'mendment rights are being taken away!
'MERICA!!! GUNS!!!

Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 26 July 2012 - 02:54 PM.

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#233    JGirl

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:32 PM

View PostCharlie Prime, on 26 July 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

Ouch.  :D


I admit, it is difficult for me to understand the slave mentality these people have.  I intellectually understand how it is the result of fifteen thousand hours of government school training and countless more of media programming and social conditioning, but on a gut level, it seems so vile as to be impossible.
which people are you referring to?

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#234    Corp

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

I assume it refers to people who blindly believe everything the government says. But it could be people who blindly believe everything they read on random internet blogs.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#235    preacherman76

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:21 PM

View Postpsychoticmike, on 23 July 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

so if a foreign country just happens to invade mine, i should defend myself with a can of pepper spray? what if my own government trys to harm me or restrict my freedom or rights? pepper spray is the answer for that to? sorry, but no. theres nothing wrong with my arguement besides your misinterpretation of it. there is a world of difference between owning fire arms and owning nukes. Actually, i do get the point, but I don't think you get mine. You don't want to stop people from killing each other? well isn't That the problem, and not the way they do it? criminals already have guns and restricting private gun ownership is not gonna change that. its only gonna create victims out of people that can not protect themselves against anybody who does have guns or any kind of weapon. if you want to reduce gun crime you have to reduce the conditions that cause crime. did you even check out my link? did you watch any of that video? you should.

So im reading your post when suddenly I realise why people who dont live in this country are so against the idea that the right to own arms is fundemental for a free nation. If they admit that, then they have to face the fact that they are helpless. What ever ball thier government wants to throw at them, they cant do a single thing about it. Even if what ever that situation is makes Hitler look like santa claus. Thats a scary thing to think about.

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#236    odiesbsc

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:22 PM

http://nagr.org/UN_Draft_Treaty.pdf

Here is the arns trade treaty. It should scare all Americans.

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#237    Czero 101

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:37 PM

View Postodiesbsc, on 26 July 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

http://nagr.org/UN_Draft_Treaty.pdf

Here is the arns trade treaty. It should scare all Americans.

Despite all the assumptions made by whomever marked up / highlighted / commented on that document, there is still nothing in that Treaty that is specifically designed to repeal the 2nd Amendment or prevent the lawful purchase of guns by Americans.






Cz

Edited by Czero 101, 26 July 2012 - 10:38 PM.

"Thinking is critical, because sense is not common..." - GreaterSapien
"Enquiring and doubting the "official story" are also good things .... However when these doubts require you to ignore the evidence, to dishonestly cherry pick evidence and claim it supports your case when it doesn't, when you operate a double standard; demanding proof of that which is already proven whilst making unsupported statements and personal opinions to back your own case and when you deny the truth simply because it IS the official story then you are no longer acting in a rational way. This is not the behaviour of a "different thinker", this is the behaviour of a "believer" who chooses not to rationally think about the evidence at all." - Waspie Dwarf

#238    ZaraKitty

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostCzero 101, on 24 July 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Actually, if you go back to post #197 I provided a source that shows that in 2010, there were 31,513 deaths by firearms in the USA.

Of those 31,513 deaths, 19,308 were suicides, 11,015 were homicides; and then another 600 were accidental fatalities. .[SOURCE]


Its actually both, and the point has been well made that if there weren't guns, there would be some other "weapon of choice" - swords, rocks, big pointy sticks, what have you.

The point that has still not been properly addressed, however, is that the UN Treaty under discussion HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TAKING GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF AMERICANS WHO OBTAINED THEM LEGALLY.





Cz

Sorry, saw those numbers on tv before I posted them. I assumed they were homicides.

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#239    Czero 101

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:10 AM

View PostZaraKitty, on 27 July 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Sorry, saw those numbers on tv before I posted them. I assumed they were homicides.

No worries, and your 9,000-ish number may very well have been correct at some point before 2010, and does serve to reinforce the point I made earlier that the numbers are trending higher for firearm-related deaths.

The numbers I'm using are, as far as I've been able to determine, the most up-to-date figures available. The 2011 numbers will probably be released at some point this year or next, 2012's numbers a year-ish after that, etc.






Cz

"Thinking is critical, because sense is not common..." - GreaterSapien
"Enquiring and doubting the "official story" are also good things .... However when these doubts require you to ignore the evidence, to dishonestly cherry pick evidence and claim it supports your case when it doesn't, when you operate a double standard; demanding proof of that which is already proven whilst making unsupported statements and personal opinions to back your own case and when you deny the truth simply because it IS the official story then you are no longer acting in a rational way. This is not the behaviour of a "different thinker", this is the behaviour of a "believer" who chooses not to rationally think about the evidence at all." - Waspie Dwarf

#240    Karlis

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostCzero 101, on 26 July 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

~~~ ...

... nothing in that Treaty that is specifically designed to repeal the 2nd Amendment or prevent the lawful purchase of guns by Americans.

Cz
Quite correct, Czero.

Please read the short article upon which the OP is based to see the "potential". The author's point (as I understand it) is that there are small initial steps, one at a time, gradually escalating to a point when legislation takes place.





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