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Here we go (again)


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#1    GIZZIE

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Posted 27 February 2002 - 10:22 PM

I took Tommy's advice and have cut this in 2: The first is to read and the second will be the questions (I don't mean to sound like a school marm " and your homework will be..............!!) No apologies for any puntuation errors!

So...........................
God created Adam from dust in His image. Eve was created by God from one of Adam's ribs Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Earth, rivers, seas, oceans and animals, Nature, were all created before Man. Adam and Eve are stated as being the progenitors of the Human race. Adam fathered 30 males and 30 females and lived for 900 odd years, as did Eve because Adam died before her. For having disobeyed God by eating from the Tree of Life, A&E were ordered to leave Eden and to live in the wilderness (desert maybe). Having left Eden, they met a tribe of people.

And there I stop.  I have given a very brief personal summary I know. There is so much more to read, learn, solve, understand etc, I consider the Bible to be a wonderful collection of fact, mystery, metaphors and the Key to Life, the gate to open being, perhaps, the afterlife.  My questions (I still haven't asked my ultimate question!) could probably stand as separate posts.  If anyone, including the Master, thinks this is too much or not appropriate for this Forum, may I ask to be re-directed to an appropriate one.  

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#2    GIZZIE

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Posted 27 February 2002 - 10:27 PM

Do you think God used "hidden meanings"?
I don't see how Moses would have misinterpreted them but could there be errors in translations?
At the time God revealed so much to Moses, was the Western world swinging clubs?
The wilderness appears to me to be somewhere in the Middle East. Do others agree?
Was it Eve who bore 60 children?
Adam and Eve were vegetarians.            ?
The Serpent,originally, had arms and legs, was tricked by Lucifer/Satan.  ?
Lucifer was the most beautiful of all the angels and for having refused to pay homage to Adam, along with other angels, was banished from Heaven. In essence, therefore Lucifer was good..?
Lucifer wept when challenged by Eve, and gave her H(?)his reasons for having tempted her.  Could this mean that Lucifer is not so bad and that there is another Devil, referred to as the Beast?  Or did Lucifer become more evil with time?                
God descended to Eden. Could Eden have been/be on Earth?
Time and Age appear not to be as we know them today.  Where do they come from?
A&E were adults when created and (I think) Eve was already pregnant with Cain just before her banishment.              ?
Who was this tribe of humans that A&E encountered in the wilderness?
God created Adam is His image.  Does it mean that God looks like a human or..Could it mean something else?
By eating the Forbidden Fruit, A&E realised they were naked.  What do you think naked means?
In 2 sentences, what does being of the Christian faith mean?  
I don't think we can take bits from the Bible to suit ourselves, as some think.  I don't think however, that all of it is from God either, some of it has been added on to by man to create fear. Do others agree?
Which bits in that case, can we take as "gospel" ?

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#3    PurpleStuart

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Posted 02 March 2002 - 01:13 PM

Wow thats like a Religious education exam!

Before i go on i'd just like to state that these are my beliefs and i mean in no way to belittle the beliefs of others.

Firstly Adam and Eve - a nice work of fiction (mostly)
The Old testiment was written by a group of people over a great deal of time. Some of it is fabrication (not out of malice but to serve as the way of example) but some deals with true events, some of which are half remembered and have been mistranslated or changed over time. The best example of this i can think of (and prove) is in the New testiment so i'm going a bit off topic here, but bear with me as it is a good example.  In the Bible Jesus says that he is the "Son of Man" or the "Son of God". Today we take this to mean that he literally was God's son, but what it really is is a mis-translation, in ancient hebrew to say that you are the son of god or the son of man is simply saying that you are a member of the human race. Jesus was actually saying "I'm a Man" or "I'm a man like you" in the same way that public speakers nowadays try to identify with the people who listen to them -  to the man on the street if you like.[/tangent]
 
There may have been an adam and eve but i don't believe they were the first two humans, created by god.
Now i'm a great believer in ancienct civilisations so what i'd *like* to believe is that if they existed, Adam and Eve were actualy leaders of a group of survivors from an extremely ancient civilisation (which we now call Eden) which was wiped out by famine/war/natural disaster.
I'm not saying it was a technologically advanced culture, but one that was 'better' than what came after it for a long while, so it was remembered as a paradise by these people.

Moses & the Ten commandments. well yet again i don't believe these were written by anybody but Moses's stone mason. I believe that there probably were ten commandments but the fact that God gave them to him was either attributed after by a later author or story Moses told to validate his shiny new set of rules eg:

MOSES: "Don't steal my cow!"
THIEF: "Why not, huh?"
MOSES:  "urrrmm,...."
MOSES looks around
MOSES: "...God said so!"
THIEF: "Oh, OK then"

God didn't create man in his image, Man created God in *his* image.

Belonging to the Christian Faith means more than belonging to the Christian Religion. Faith is everything a religion is not.

Time was created at the big bang. it didn't exist before that.

Well that sorta covers some of them - is that OK?

never take me too seriously

#4    Loonboy

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Posted 02 March 2002 - 09:43 PM

[blue]
I can only remember 8 Commandments.... ???

1. Thou shalt not kill.
2. Thou shalt not steal.
3. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, house and posessions.
4. Thou shalt honour thy mother & thy father.
5. Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7. Thou shalt not worship false gods before me.
8. Thou shalt keep the Sabbath day holy.
9.
10.

But of those above I believe most are fairly sensible and 'correct' models of behaviour - ie. not stealing, not murdering, etc. which lead a person to live in harmony with their fellow men. Some of them I find difficult to accept --> keeping the Sabbath holy etc. as the words of God (whomever that is).

Are they the words of God? - I have no idea.
Are they inspirational words? - Absolutely.
Are we damned to hell if we do not follow them? - I don't know, but I can imagine that killing someone has pretty dramatic consequences for your soul.

I believe that the only thing that matters when we die, the only thing we take with us, is: how we have affected the people/living beings around us in our lives. And most of the commandments above support that idea. So it's easy to see how Christianity used them as a foundation for it's faith.

PS - what were the other two?? :s9
[/blue]


Do what you want and be what you feel. Because after all, those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't 'mind.

Work hard, keep the ceremonies, live peacably, and unite your hearts. – Hopi

Listen to the voice of nature, for it holds treasures for you. – Huron

The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears. – Minquass


#5    Althalus

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Posted 02 March 2002 - 10:02 PM

The other two of the ten commandments are:

Though shalt not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or is in the water under the earth, and though shalt not bow down to them.

Though shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbours.

I personally think that the bible is a mishmash of all different stories, most of which have a basis in fact.  such as the flood, and the adam and eve bit, it's just that the adam and eve bit is a lot older than the bible would have you believe, and that after that when they get kicked out, they came accross people outside of the garden.  What was the garden - possibly some sort of spaceship or highly advanced human craft from pre,pre-history, A&E ate the apple, and saw they were naked, i believe that this is an indication that they were basically dumb before, and they found something and they gained there knowledge from that,  God was miffed and threw them out.

Skip forward in time, a few hundred, or thousand years, you have another couple, who history remembers as Adam and Eve, they come across a tribe of people and the story picks up again.

There is more on what I think but it goes on about Nibiru, and off topic so I won't put it here.  

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
— David Gemmell

#6    GIZZIE

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Posted 02 March 2002 - 10:49 PM

If I was thinking of holding an RE exam, then I would say that you all passed with flying colours - many thanks for the really helpful and interesting replies:

I don't know what to make of it to be honest - for example, it would appear (if we are going to think of A&E) as the first on the earth (HUMANS that is, I'm quite open to other humanoid races; I've just been reading about a group of angels, the Silent Ones, who took human women for their "wives" and for this were also banished by God.  Anyway, I digress, A&E, it seems to me were vegetarians.  When they were in Eden, they didn't eat animals, they were their guardians and all the animals were tame. Ie; were not afraid, of Man, and A&E ate a special Eden diet- Eve complained about having to eat grass once banished from Eden. Could this mean that Humans were not infact cavemen who ate Dinosaur steaks, Flintstone style?  Maybe it's A&E who were the "aliens" and the Cavemen are the Humans?  Either way, I find it interesting to ponder and discuss;  anyone know much about the Mayans and the Chaldeans?

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#7    Sheff_Pud

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Posted 02 March 2002 - 10:53 PM

My personal belief about Genesis is that, it shows a belief in evolution by the storytellers.
A&E are simply male and female humans who, eventually acquire intelligence and, like modern humans, set about nearly destroying themselves and their kin (tribe?).
To make this believable to their readers/listeners, the storytellers had to add the power of god. As in all good stories there is always a fight between good and evil. This is the essence of our life. We constantly try to do what is right (mostly) and the ancient story tellers (who were the forerunners to radio) would have had to embelish or even invent to make sure it was their story which was remembered, as opposed to the competition.

Surgeons must be very carefulWhen they take the knife!Underneath their fine incisionsStirs the Culprit -- Life!                            (Emily Dickinson)

#8    Althalus

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Posted 02 March 2002 - 11:54 PM

The mayan's, yep know of them, not so sure of the chaldeans though, according to the mayan calendar, we are about 500 years overdue for a really big devestation, after already having 4 others.  This will be the last one, in which the world will be changed or destroyed.

 

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
— David Gemmell

#9    Homer

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Posted 03 March 2002 - 07:39 PM

Althalus

The Mayan calender is what is referenced when the dreaded date of Dec. 21th, 2012 comes. There was intersting discussion on that last year...here[glow=blue,2,300]

Also, is Nibiru the 12th planet? Where, according to Zech Sitchin, the Anunnaki lives?

[glow=blue,2,300]Homer :sj

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#10    Mr-X

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 01:31 AM

I'll put my 2 cents in now.


Humans throughout history have had a tendency to ask alot of questions. Where did we come from? Who is God? etc Someone very smart gave these highly sensitive gullible people the answers, therefore a belief system like Christianity was born.

"How fortunate for leaders that the masses do not think" Hitler.

Humans are now asking questions that go against Christianity and its belief system, we are doing this right now. Humans and time will slowly destroy Christianity and a new religion will come about. Thats what happened to Greek Mythology, the same thing will happen to Christianity.

Who here believes that Christianity was a form of Cult? The Nazarene cult.


I personally believe that the Old Tesament is full of ****. Again it provides answers to long asked questions about humanity and its existence.  Some stuff could be true, but highly exagerated through out time.

God created the world in 7 days. Hmmmmmmm

When did the dino's come into the picture?


Gizzie,

about Adam and Eve being vegetarians. Scientist have actually found that human beings actually started off being vego's. They done a test that looked at the digestive system of a tiger (carnivore) and the digestive system of a human. When they looked at the tract in which lines our intestines they found that the Tigers intestines were far better suited for digesting meat. The human intestines on the other were better for digesting greens. That is why we have an appendix, it does nothing for us now but in the past (thousands thousands of years) it would release certain chemicals so that the greens (grass, leafs, etc) would be digested. then one day our eating habits changed and we became carnivores. Another thing the scientist looked at were the teeth. Carnivores teeth are far better suited for ripping meat  off their victims body because they are sharper and more rigid then ours. Have a look for yourself.



       
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Oh, you should never doubt what no one is sure about.
- Willy Wonka

#11    Homer

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 01:51 AM

About Adam & Eve being vegatarians. Perhaps Genesis 1:29 might give the answer...or perhaps not...

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#12    NessyK

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 11:31 PM

:sh

To you all,

I thought you might appreciate this little e-mail I received on this subject - sums it all up really! :se

Subject: FW: Good Advice for us all


> > Subject:    GODS CHILDREN
> >
> >     God's Children by Bill Cosby
> >
Whenever your kids are out of control, you can take comfort from the thought that even God's omnipotence did not extend to God's kids.
> >
After creating heaven and earth, God created Adam and Eve.
> >
And the first thing he said was: "Don't."
> >
"Don't what?" Adam replied.
> >
"Don't eat the forbidden fruit." God said.
> >
"Forbidden fruit"  We got forbidden fruit?  Hey, Eve...we got     forbidden fruit!"
> >
"No way!"
> >
"Yes way!"
> >
"Don't eat that fruit!" said God
> >
"Why"
> >
"Because I am your Father and I said so!" said God, wondering why he hadn't stopped after making the elephants.
> >
A few minutes later God saw his kids having an apple break and was angry.
> >
"Didn't I tell you not to eat the fruit?" the First Parent asked.
> >
"Uh huh," Adam replied.
> >
"Then why did you?"
> >
"I dunno" Eve answered.
> >
"She started it!" Adam said.
> >
"Did not!"
> >
"Did too!"
> >
"DID NOT!!"
> >
Having had it with the two of them, God's punishment was that
Adam and Eve should have children of their own.
> >
Thus, the pattern was set and it has never changed.
> >
But there is reassurance in this story.
> >
If you have persistently and lovingly tried to give them wisdom
and they haven't taken it, don't be hard on yourself.
> >
If God had trouble handling children, what makes you think it
would be a piece of cake for you?

:s03 :s02 :s2
> >
Advice for the day

If you are stressed out and have a headache
Do what it says on the bottle...

Take two and keep away from children!   :st

NessyK


#13    GIZZIE

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Posted 05 March 2002 - 01:17 PM

Love it NessyK!!

I love kids, but...........I couldn't eat a whole one!

I'm now going to find the bottle to take 2 and keep the kids away - It's worked so far - No kids!!

By the way any news on Sheff's newborn?  Are congratulations in order?

Swallows are the dolphins of the sky




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