Miss CA in hot water

[Sho_Sho]

I’m sure most of you have heard about the Miss USA scandal when Miss California was asked by Perez Hilton what she thought about gay marriage. You can read a lot of what I’m talking about on his site. He is slamming the girl. She said that she thought marriage should be between a man and a woman. And then...all hell broke loose.

http://www.perezhilton.com/

I think that gays and lesbians should have the same rights as everyone else, and what she said was pretty shocking considering most of the men involved in the pageant world are gay, and that is a major demographic that she just went against, but I don’t think it’s right to slam her for her opinion, and her lose the pageant because of it. It has even been said that she was in the lead to take the crown until she opened her mouth and said what she said.

I have read tons of stories over the last few days and Miss CA is getting slammed left and right for her beliefs. She was in a competition and she was asked her opinion, and she gave her honest answer. I don’t think its right how she is being condemned for it. I could see if she said something offensive and rude, but I guess its being taken as offensive because she doesn’t happen to agree.

I have seen this over and over again over the last few years, the loud minority is going to force everyone else to see and think their way, and if you don’t, and have the nerve to oppose it, you will pay for it . Even though I DO NOT agree with Miss CA, I’m glad that she stood up for her beliefs and stood true to herself, and not just blurt out a lame answer she thought everyone wanted to hear. I think a lot of people do that these days; it is socially unacceptable to think for yourself, I have even caught myself a couple times covering up my true opinions just to avoid a conflict.

In this day and age it seems like if you don’t agree with the "mainstream" politically correct cause of the moment you are going to be singled out and shunned and I don’t think that’s right. Everyone should be entitled to their own opinion, and shouldn’t be forced to fall into the bandwagon of what everyone thinks is right. As long as you are not hurting anyone EVERYONE should be entitled to their opinion even if you don’t agree with it.

So my question to you is, what do you think about this situation? Do you think its right that she lost because of her answer? Do you think she is getting what she deserves? All opinion's welcome

Edited April 22, 2009 by Sho_Sho

[eqgumby]

Well, it was her opinion. She's entitled to it, even if it IS in line with the majority of California's population (probably the "gayest" state in the Union).

I think she's getting a raw deal.

Is any one else surprised that you can be vilified for having an opinion that doesn't mesh perfectly with a small group of people? Seems weird.

[ravergirl]

Well she had to pick one answer. And she had to explain her answer. And since pageant contestants are supposed to represent all that they do and have to maintain a certain image, she probably answered correctly for a couple years ago. She would have gotten a lot of flack for either answer. I am sure she didn't lose because of that one question.

[zitro1987]

As you saw, I'm a huge supporter of gay marriage (and I'm straight), but I feel she's getting unnecessary criticism. Not everyone shares the same opinion, and it's kinda sad that because of different values, she would be criticized so much. What's next, getting a Miss______'s chances ruined because she's against abortion?

I still think that they're judged on their character. However, what is worse? an personal opinion many disagree with or that Miss ______ who said that guantanamo bay is beautiful. lol

Personally, I don't care for these beauty contests. It seems quite old-fashioned and the girls are generally a bit too thin ,.. not a good message to girls. (and for one particular Miss Universe, I could think of dozens of girls I've met that were hotter)

[__Kratos__]

If she gave an honest answer that she was against interracial marriage, do you think she would be able to play the victim card here?

Her opinion is based in a bigoted faith and not all the sweet talk or fake tans in the world are going to cover that part up. That's reason enough to cut her chances from being a role model if she can't be a decent human being.

[Karlis]

I’m sure most of you have heard about the Miss USA scandal when Miss California was asked by Perez Hilton what she thought about gay marriage. You can read a lot of what I’m talking about on his site. He is slamming the girl. She said that she thought marriage should be between a man and a woman. And then...all hell broke loose.

http://www.perezhilton.com/

~~~ ... (Snip) ...

So my question to you is, what do you think about this situation?

Do you think its right that she lost because of her answer?

Do you think she is getting what she deserves? All opinion's welcome

Well, my personal opinion would not be worth anything here, would it? On the other hand, why not look at what has been reported? For instance:

A Miss USA contestant says God was testing her character when she was asked her views on gay marriage, and will stand by her answer - that marriage is between a man and a woman - despite being called a "dumb b****" by the judge who asked her the question.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/it-...dmh=dm16.372749

Why not listen to the person who is actually a key character in this scenario?

Karlis

[eqgumby]

If she gave an honest answer that she was against interracial marriage, do you think she would be able to play the victim card here?

Her opinion is based in a bigoted faith and not all the sweet talk or fake tans in the world are going to cover that part up. That's reason enough to cut her chances from being a role model if she can't be a decent human being.

Apples and oranges. Nice try though. Can your hate.

You don't mean "decent" human being, you mean a media drone that has no opinion other than that fed to her by politically correct tools. Her opinion reflects that of the state to boot. She was asked a specific question, that had nothing to do with the contest. It was an attempt by Hilton to promote his agenda, nothing more. He didn't get the answer he wanted, so now he feigns shock. "Oh my GOD! She dares feel the same as the MAJORITY of the state? How DARE she not promote my agenda!" It's crap.

[rassy]

I haven't heard any of that news over here, yet. Does anyone have a source quoting exactly what this lady said? A good friend told me basically what she said, but I don't want to comment if I am wrong in my opinion. I'm not sure if she bashed gay couples/marriage at all or just gave an honest answer that applies for herself yet is open minded for others choices.

I personally think homosexuality is not natural. However, that's me. And since I am heterosexual, I can't imagine thinking of falling in love with the same sex without it feeling all wrong and freaky, to boot. But what's natural for me, may not be natural for someone else. I understand that people loving same sex partners feel the same feelings of love as anyone else, and are not freaky abominations that are going to influence our children and society etc. I wish people would get off this whole bandwagon of "choice". It's not a matter of choice as much as it is just something that comes naturally for all of us, in whichever way that happens. Hence, I am greatly in support of gay marriage and couples and rights, regardless of how I feel personally.

I imagine that if I was asked the same question as this lady, I may have come up with a similar answer. I can't imagine she would have directly said gay stuff is bad or shouldn't be allowed or something. But I would like to see a quote of what she said, if anyone would like to post that.

[Irish]

Apples and oranges. Nice try though. Can your hate.

You don't mean "decent" human being, you mean a media drone that has no opinion other than that fed to her by politically correct tools. Her opinion reflects that of the state to boot. She was asked a specific question, that had nothing to do with the contest. It was an attempt by Hilton to promote his agenda, nothing more. He didn't get the answer he wanted, so now he feigns shock. "Oh my GOD! She dares feel the same as the MAJORITY of the state? How DARE she not promote my agenda!" It's crap.

agreed

Those that are not satisfied with tolerance and acceptance but insist that we all should unequivocally endorse their way of life, dress and public behavior. Those that believe acceptance must be shoved down the throats of people who just plain agree to disagree.

[eqgumby]

agreed

Those that are not satisfied with tolerance and acceptance but insist that we all should unequivocally endorse their way of life, dress and public behavior. Those that believe acceptance must be shoved down the throats of people who just plain agree to disagree.

Really. A Miss America pageant is so NOT the place to debate this.

And this isn't the place to debate gay marriage. There are plenty of those threads already.

She expressed her opinion. It was well stated, she didn't come off anti-gay, she simply said she was raised to believe "marriage" was between a man and a woman. She didn't even get into all the intricacies of law and potential social issues or moral dilemmas. She kept it pretty simple.

Perez:

Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not?”

Miss Cal.

Well I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. Um, we live in a land that you can choose same sex marriage or opposite marriage and, you know what, in my country and in, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman ... No offense to anybody out there. But that’s how I was raised and that’s how I think that it should be between a man and a woman."

OK...that's her opinion. So what?

[__Kratos__]

Apples and oranges. Nice try though. Can your hate.

You don't mean "decent" human being, you mean a media drone that has no opinion other than that fed to her by politically correct tools. Her opinion reflects that of the state to boot. She was asked a specific question, that had nothing to do with the contest. It was an attempt by Hilton to promote his agenda, nothing more. He didn't get the answer he wanted, so now he feigns shock. "Oh my GOD! She dares feel the same as the MAJORITY of the state? How DARE she not promote my agenda!" It's crap.

How so?

Marriage wasn't invented by the christians but shows up a vast many cultures across the globe, so to think the entire world should bow to their feet to respect their bigoted opinions regardless of who they effect is not the way to go. I find it hilarious a good bit to that it's fine for me, an atheist, to get married because I'm straight but two people who love each other can't.

With the divorce rate at around 50% and the sanctity Britney Spear's not even 3 day marriage, I'm truly doubtful that straights are doing it any better then others would

Yep, that's it because you know I'm always in 100% agreement with the media.

It was a valid question because I believe they're always asked about current events. Perez Hilton is a drama queen though and I don't even know how that internet loser got a spot in judging. He's also an attention whore in case you didn't notice and this latest bit is giving him plenty of what he wants when he rants on.

[Irish]

I believe it goes way beyond acceptance and tolerance it is intellectual blackmail, believe as we do or be branded as a hateful dogmatic bigot. Personally I think the solution is to completely remove the word marriage as a secular term and call it what it is a “civic union’ with all the rights of marriage under the current laws of the land. This would hopefully satisfy the same sex issues as well as those that wish to practice polygamy. It would mean a slight inconvenience to those of faith as they would have a court approved civic union and can have a church approved marriage afterward. A win win for all involved.

[eqgumby]

I believe it goes way beyond acceptance and tolerance it is intellectual blackmail, believe as we do or be branded as a hateful dogmatic bigot. Personally I think the solution is to completely remove the word marriage as a secular term and call it what it is a “civic union’ with all the rights of marriage under the current laws of the land. This would hopefully satisfy the same sex issues as well as those that wish to practice polygamy. It would mean a slight inconvenience to those of faith as they would have a court approved civic union and can have a church approved marriage afterward. A win win for all involved.

I agree, but that is just NOT good enough to satisfy the agenda driven goals of certain groups.

Fact of the matter is, "gay marriage" as being pushed, would be a mess, not from a religious agenda (despite Kratos assertions that this is what it's really about).

Kratos:

You continue to debate gay marriage. That's not what this was about. It's about a person daring to express their personal opinion, and being vilified for it. YOU can say you believe in "gay marriage", and no one should hate you, or vilify you for it. SHE can say she doesn't believe in it, and she should be afforded the same courtesy. Period.

[Plainbob13]

How did this Hilton guy get to be a judge? I thought you had to be some what famous?

[SQLserver]

Quite frankly, I have absolutely no idea why we are asking beauty queens, and citizens on basic issues of rights. American citizens do not have the right to make their country or state a dictatorship.

It doesn't matter if every single person in America thinks it is alright to violate the rights of others; the constitution, and more importantly, basic morality, tops the opinions of every single person in the world.

The vast, vast majority of those in the southern states in the early 1800's believed it was alright to restrict others to a lifetime of slavery. Did that make it right? Of course not. And guess what? This time around, as it is every time around, it is the same people quoting from the same book that want to limit liberty and the pursuit of happiness in our country.

So, this girl's opinion does not matter. The opinion of any American does not trump the basic values of freedom and liberty that define not only the basic principles of the constitution but also all dignity in the human race.

Cheers,

SQLserver

[__Kratos__]

I agree, but that is just NOT good enough to satisfy the agenda driven goals of certain groups.

Fact of the matter is, "gay marriage" as being pushed, would be a mess, not from a religious agenda (despite Kratos assertions that this is what it's really about).

Kratos:

You continue to debate gay marriage. That's not what this was about. It's about a person daring to express their personal opinion, and being vilified for it. YOU can say you believe in "gay marriage", and no one should hate you, or vilify you for it. SHE can say she doesn't believe in it, and she should be afforded the same courtesy. Period.

Heh, I don't think so. There are plenty of opinions out there that aren't right and just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're going to be respected for it. This is a private group looking for role models in a modern world and to promote their image. The religious bigotry she spewed out of her pretty mouth isn't what they were looking for.

She doesn't believe in gay marriage but yet she still wears clothing of mixed cloth (Leviticus19:19), promotes lust and immorality with her dressing style and showing off her body, among a lot of other things. So in the end to, she's just a huge hypocrite.

[Michelle]

http://www.slavenorth.com/

It doesn't pay to skip history class SQLserver. Slavery was not merely a southern phenomena, contrary to popular belief.

[Michelle]

I'm rather suprised you're taking that stance, Kratos. You're always the first one to stand up for people's rights and freedom of speech.

But, then again she is a Christian.

[Wickian]

It makes no sense to me that gay marriage is illegal. What does it matter if two men/women want to have the ceremony and rights? When it comes down to it marriage is between two people regardless of their sex.

Religious folk can deny them say a Christian or Catholic wedding since it's against their faith, but legally they should be allowed to get a marriage license. If they really wanted they can find a ship captain to do it for them.

[Michelle]

It makes no sense to me that gay marriage is illegal. What does it matter if two men/women want to have the ceremony and rights? When it comes down to it marriage is between two people regardless of their sex.

Religious folk can deny them say a Christian or Catholic wedding since it's against their faith, but legally they should be allowed to get a marriage license. If they really wanted they can find a ship captain to do it for them.

Exactly, but it's not a Christian law that's stopping it legally, it's the majority vote.

[DarkNova@]

Gay, Not gay.

Married, Not married.

I don't give a cr@p but I gotta say I am proud of her for standing up for her beliefs.

No matter what they were.

[Sho_Sho]

I believe it goes way beyond acceptance and tolerance it is intellectual blackmail, believe as we do or be branded as a hateful dogmatic bigot. Personally I think the solution is to completely remove the word marriage as a secular term and call it what it is a “civic union’ with all the rights of marriage under the current laws of the land. This would hopefully satisfy the same sex issues as well as those that wish to practice polygamy. It would mean a slight inconvenience to those of faith as they would have a court approved civic union and can have a church approved marriage afterward. A win win for all involved.

Very smart post!!!!

I do not believe that making people feel guilty generates tolerance, it generates resentment. And if the gay population wants to be accepted by others as equal they need to stop being so overly sensitive and overly demanding of everyone to ....accept it or else we are going to target you as a bigot.

I don’t understand why every group has such an entitlement complex.

[__Kratos__]

I'm rather suprised you're taking that stance, Kratos. You're always the first one to stand up for people's rights and freedom of speech.

But, then again she is a Christian.

I also respect the rights of private companies. This isn't a free speech issue because of that. She voiced her opinions and they didn't match up to what they wanted in a role model. I would assume that's why they ask questions to the girls to know where they stand on things so they know what to pick.

She's gotten more air time and publicity over this whine fest then even Miss America has. I don't even know who the Miss America is but I know her.

Exactly, but it's not a Christian law that's stopping it legally, it's the majority vote.

Backed by a huge support of christians and other believers.

The majority shouldn't oppress the rights of a minority. Aren't we all suppose to be equal in America?

Edited April 22, 2009 by __Kratos__

[The Silver Thong]

Kratos made a good point the top three women will be represenatives and spokes people. They need to act more like a politician and appease as many people as they can to win. Should she have curbbed her opinion a little or left something out to appease a larger group ? Hell ya if she wanted to win. However she stuck to her guns and spoke what she felt, nothing wrong with that if you don't care what people think of your opinion. Given the enviroment she was in (california) she should have knowen that her stance would not be recieved well. I give her credit for standing up for what she believes even if I totaly disagree with her but the reaction shouldn't come as a surprise.

Edit: beauty pageants arn't for the faint of heart, it's a dog eat dog compitition and if your not willing to sacrifice your views to win you probably won't win. It's rather disgusting but thats how it is.

Edited April 22, 2009 by The Silver Thong

[Kissmet]

Well she had to pick one answer. And she had to explain her answer. And since pageant contestants are supposed to represent all that they do and have to maintain a certain image, she probably answered correctly for a couple years ago. She would have gotten a lot of flack for either answer. I am sure she didn't lose because of that one question.

I agree, either way she answer people will still react.