Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

'The God Delusion'.. But is it true?


  • Please log in to reply
89 replies to this topic

#1    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:17 PM

The professor's book presents his atheistic beliefs and points to the damage that he believes religion has done and is doing in the world. You might agree but does that mean that there is no place for spirituality in life ?


#2    Ashotep

Ashotep

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,149 posts
  • Joined:10 May 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

  • Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway-John Wayne

Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:29 PM

Some religions are doing a lot of damage in this world.  If you don't believe the way they do and adhere to their religious beliefs they want to kill you.  They want their countries law in tune with their religious laws and carried out without mercy.  No room for free thinking at all.

Other religions, while I may or may not agree with them, as long as they aren't forcing their views on me or want to kill me if I don't agree I can live with them.

If your an atheist a religion person isn't going to care for having your views shoved down their throats either.  You just have to respect others beliefs as long as their not trying to kill you.

Edited by Hilander, 06 May 2013 - 08:40 PM.


#3    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:09 PM

View PostHilander, on 06 May 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Some religions are doing a lot of damage in this world.  If you don't believe the way they do and adhere to their religious beliefs they want to kill you.  They want their countries law in tune with their religious laws and carried out without mercy.  No room for free thinking at all.

Other religions, while I may or may not agree with them, as long as they aren't forcing their views on me or want to kill me if I don't agree I can live with them.

If your an atheist a religion person isn't going to care for having your views shoved down their throats either.  You just have to respect others beliefs as long as their not trying to kill you.


An atheist of the Richard Dawkins ilk has no time for spirituality as to them there is nothing to be spiritual about; it was just the 'big bang' and evolution. This seems a simple answer, but to many of us an incomplete answer, to the mystery of human developement on our planet


#4    Sir Wearer of Hats

Sir Wearer of Hats

    Is not a number!

  • Member
  • 9,442 posts
  • Joined:08 Nov 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queensland, Australia.

Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:16 PM

View Postlaver, on 06 May 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

The professor's book presents his atheistic beliefs and points to the damage that he believes religion has done and is doing in the world. You might agree but does that mean that there is no place for spirituality in life ?
I've always thought that while religion can be bad, faith is good (ie it's a religion that says "slaughter your enemies, get a reward" while it's a faith that says "that's a good idea").


#5    Doug1o29

Doug1o29

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,577 posts
  • Joined:01 Aug 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:oklahoma

Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:22 PM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 06 May 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

I've always thought that while religion can be bad, faith is good (ie it's a religion that says "slaughter your enemies, get a reward" while it's a faith that says "that's a good idea").
If "faith" means accepting an idea without questioning it, then faith is destructive.  But if "faith" includes questioning your beliefs to make sure they are consistent with the physical universe, then it is constructive.  The risk is that faith will lead one astray.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#6    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:29 PM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 06 May 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

I've always thought that while religion can be bad, faith is good (ie it's a religion that says "slaughter your enemies, get a reward" while it's a faith that says "that's a good idea").

Good?  Good for whom? Dogma versus rational thought? But does that have anything to do with spirituality?


#7    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:33 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 06 May 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

If "faith" means accepting an idea without questioning it, then faith is destructive.  But if "faith" includes questioning your beliefs to make sure they are consistent with the physical universe, then it is constructive.  The risk is that faith will lead one astray.
Doug

'Faith includes questioning your beliefs' ? surely that is a contradiction of terms?


#8    libstaK

libstaK

    Nosce Te Ipsum

  • 6,000 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

  • Hello Reality and all that is True
    When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Posted 07 May 2013 - 12:00 AM

View Postlaver, on 06 May 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

'Faith includes questioning your beliefs' ? surely that is a contradiction of terms?
No contradiction in my experience.  You need to start with faith in yourself and the capacity to discern and disseminate the information that comes your way.  There is a quote which I am not sure who said first "When the pupil is ready, the teacher will arrive".  In my life that has been true, there is no question I can't ask because I know I have the right to know the truth. My questions have led me to know there is a God and I have faith that no matter the question, if I seek sincerely I will get the answer, even if it is an answer I may not like and struggle with for a time.  I can't convince anyone of this though, I can only encourage that genuine questions be asked by others for themselves, it's only over time by the asking and testing of many questions that the body of personal evidence becomes insurmountable.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#9    Mystic Crusader

Mystic Crusader

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,012 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona

  • "What would you rather be, a bus driver, or a super terrorist?"

Posted 07 May 2013 - 12:05 AM



I watched 90%, I agree with it.

I haven't read the book though.

Edited by HavocWing, 07 May 2013 - 12:06 AM.

Drunk with blood..
Danger cult leaders
Jewish gematria # 1162:
Who is like God
The epitome of evil

#10    ambelamba

ambelamba

    Just an average guy who tries to be...NORMAL!!!!

  • Member
  • 3,303 posts
  • Joined:26 Mar 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Entertainment Capital of the World

  • It's good to be mildly skeptical to remain sane. But too much of it will make you a douche.

Posted 07 May 2013 - 02:16 AM

I somewhat agree with Dawkins' view, except that I am not an atheist.

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

-Chief Pontiac (1718-1769)

#11    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:21 AM

View PostlibstaK, on 07 May 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

No contradiction in my experience.  You need to start with faith in yourself and the capacity to discern and disseminate the information that comes your way.  There is a quote which I am not sure who said first "When the pupil is ready, the teacher will arrive".  In my life that has been true, there is no question I can't ask because I know I have the right to know the truth. My questions have led me to know there is a God and I have faith that no matter the question, if I seek sincerely I will get the answer, even if it is an answer I may not like and struggle with for a time.  I can't convince anyone of this though, I can only encourage that genuine questions be asked by others for themselves, it's only over time by the asking and testing of many questions that the body of personal evidence becomes insurmountable.

That does not sound much like following a particular religion but more a personal quest for a personal conviction. Whether you then feel the need to convert others to your beliefs or teach them to your children seems to be the problem area. Dawkins himself has been accused of this.


#12    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 07 May 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

I somewhat agree with Dawkins' view, except that I am not an atheist.

A sound position. Dawkins is very strident but does point out the downsides of religious practice.


#13    libstaK

libstaK

    Nosce Te Ipsum

  • 6,000 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

  • Hello Reality and all that is True
    When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:18 AM

View Postlaver, on 07 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

That does not sound much like following a particular religion but more a personal quest for a personal conviction. Whether you then feel the need to convert others to your beliefs or teach them to your children seems to be the problem area. Dawkins himself has been accused of this.
Agreed, whether you doggedly believe there can be no God or you believe that God is just and only as your particular denomination determines it is still blind belief. Science has their theories which Dawkins exclaims rightly many scientists rejoice when new evidence that supercedes or proves theories false are produced, because real knowledge and the evolution of human understanding is produced this way. I don't see why our understanding of the divine can't show the same rigorous attempts at gaining knowledge and our comprehension of the deeper meanings of human condition should be encouraged - we are our own greatest adventure, the true undiscovered country is inside us.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#14    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 07 May 2013 - 03:10 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 07 May 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Agreed, whether you doggedly believe there can be no God or you believe that God is just and only as your particular denomination determines it is still blind belief. Science has their theories which Dawkins exclaims rightly many scientists rejoice when new evidence that supercedes or proves theories false are produced, because real knowledge and the evolution of human understanding is produced this way. I don't see why our understanding of the divine can't show the same rigorous attempts at gaining knowledge and our comprehension of the deeper meanings of human condition should be encouraged - we are our own greatest adventure, the true undiscovered country is inside us.

Oh LibstaK would that you and Dawkins were right... BUT

'Science has their theories which Dawkins exclaims rightly many scientists rejoice when new evidence that supercedes or proves theories false are produced'

There is a huge resistance to new ideas even in science let alone the religious fraternity where it is almost a complete no no. Richard Dawkins likes to see science as always open to new ideas but this is sadly not the case. Outside his real field of evolution etc he is far less able to cope with new ideas that question his atheistic beliefs and which indicate ancient knowledge of a 'foreign' intelligence at work in our world thousands of years ago. This is a fact because a document sent to him giving details was returned to the author with thanks but no comment presumably because it raised serious questions about ancient spiritual beliefs that he would find very difficult to answer.

Dawkins dismisses a huge amount of accumulated knowledge, myth and legend as irrelevant to his main theme of Godless evolution.

'we are our own greatest adventure, the true undiscovered country is inside us.'  and around us I would suggest.


#15    Doug1o29

Doug1o29

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,577 posts
  • Joined:01 Aug 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:oklahoma

Posted 07 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

View Postlaver, on 06 May 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

'Faith includes questioning your beliefs' ? surely that is a contradiction of terms?
It would certainly sound that way.  But one can always change one's mind - with or without evidence.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users