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A confession....


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#1    ambelamba

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:37 PM

I am not an atheist.

But that doesn't mean that I am automatically a lover of God either. I've gone through a lot of phases and now the only emotion I want to convey toward God is indifference. I gotta be honest, the main reason why I still cling to the idea of God is hardship. Yeah, I am going through a tough phase of my life (not as devastating as back in 2005 to 2007) and I feel crappy about my life in general.

I believe in God, or many gods. The sheer size of the universe makes me believe that there can't be just one deity managing everything. So,I am a bit of a polytheist. Not quite a neo-pagan, but just a bit of a polytheist. Now I am attending a Unitarian church every now and then and consider myself a Unitarian-leaning person. But I do have my criticism on my newfound religion. I believe that most people need some kind of spiritual rituals and I came to believe that Unitarianism is the least insane kind of all. (and yes, I am also interested in the teachings of Buddha.) To some of you guys, I am definitely on my highway to eternal damnation, since I chose to reject Jesus as my lord and savior.

See, I believe in God or gods. But I simply can't believe that God is wholly good. I just can't anymore. That's a part of reasons why I won't go back to Christianity. I gotta confess, I believe that Bible is just a marketing and advertisement for God. And it's a very exaggerated one. When I came to believe that, I just felt empty and hopeless because the promises and covenants of the Bible were what I wholeheartedly relid on for most of my life...

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

-Chief Pontiac (1718-1769)

#2    Pssst

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

What you believe in your heart is your spirituality, and no one has to agree with you (as long as you are not harming yourself or others.)  I think there are so many people who believe in Christianity, not for the aspect of having a relationship with Christ, but for fear of eternal damnation.  Does this mean they are "saved"?  Who knows.  Who you are in the inside is what will carry you into the afterlife.

As one of my favorite quotes states: "There are many paths to the same destination."  :)

Edited by Pssst, 28 January 2013 - 09:55 PM.


#3    Ashotep

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:53 PM

The bible was written by men not god.  I think you can believe in god and question the bible.

If I remember correctly King James had some of the books in the bible left out and that is why they call it the King James version.


#4    SpiritWriter

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 28 January 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

I am not an atheist.

But that doesn't mean that I am automatically a lover of God either. I've gone through a lot of phases and now the only emotion I want to convey toward God is indifference. I gotta be honest, the main reason why I still cling to the idea of God is hardship. Yeah, I am going through a tough phase of my life (not as devastating as back in 2005 to 2007) and I feel crappy about my life in general.

I believe in God, or many gods. The sheer size of the universe makes me believe that there can't be just one deity managing everything. So,I am a bit of a polytheist. Not quite a neo-pagan, but just a bit of a polytheist. Now I am attending a Unitarian church every now and then and consider myself a Unitarian-leaning person. But I do have my criticism on my newfound religion. I believe that most people need some kind of spiritual rituals and I came to believe that Unitarianism is the least insane kind of all. (and yes, I am also interested in the teachings of Buddha.) To some of you guys, I am definitely on my highway to eternal damnation, since I chose to reject Jesus as my lord and savior.

See, I believe in God or gods. But I simply can't believe that God is wholly good. I just can't anymore. That's a part of reasons why I won't go back to Christianity. I gotta confess, I believe that Bible is just a marketing and advertisement for God. And it's a very exaggerated one. When I came to believe that, I just felt empty and hopeless because the promises and covenants of the Bible were what I wholeheartedly relid on for most of my life...

What I like about you is that you take your spirituality seriously, you see the need for it, you question belief systems enough to break away from one you were very involved in, and you are still questioning... beautiful my friend.. you are on your path.. I am a christian, but I dont believe your on the road to eternal damnation, I believe your on the road to enlightenment, seeking, questioning and growing, the answers are within... I also, like you, dont agree with all the teachings of the bible, nor what many churches would like to force us to believe, I wont share all my philosophies on this thread, but I will tell you I have found my comforter.. I havent found the answers to all the questions I have but at least I have something to build on. Take it easy and good luck in your search!

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#5    IamsSon

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

Ron,

I can understand why you would have a hard time with Christianity, but I disagree with your view of the Bible.  If you read the Bible and walk away with this idea that God is a kindly, spoil-the-heck-out-of-the-grandkids, type old man, you are definitely not reading it properly.  God is an AWESOME (as in: Extremely impressive or daunting; inspiring great admiration, apprehension, or fear.) being who has a specific purpose and plan for His creation, and who offers one way, HIS way, to avoid the full impact of his justice.  Christians who do not see this, are fooling themselves and, unfortunately fooling others as well.  Preachers who avoid talking about how awesome this being is, are doing everyone a terrible disservice.

I think one of the things one has to keep in mind when considering God's truly amazing goodness is that this life we cling to so tenaciously is meant to be less than a drop in the ocean when taken in the context of the eternal experience He wants us to have.  That perspective is incredibly difficult to maintain when you're in the middle of hardship and trouble (believe me I know, I've been dealing with a CRAPPY situation for several years now), but it's difficult to truly understand Scripture, much less have any kind of a real insight into God's love without that perspective.

Edited by IamsSon, 28 January 2013 - 11:33 PM.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#6    ambelamba

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:21 AM

No. God is neither amazing nor good. it's all marketing.

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

-Chief Pontiac (1718-1769)

#7    ranrod

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:16 AM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 28 January 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

I am not an atheist.

But that doesn't mean that I am automatically a lover of God either. I've gone through a lot of phases and now the only emotion I want to convey toward God is indifference. I gotta be honest, the main reason why I still cling to the idea of God is hardship. Yeah, I am going through a tough phase of my life (not as devastating as back in 2005 to 2007) and I feel crappy about my life in general.

I believe in God, or many gods. The sheer size of the universe makes me believe that there can't be just one deity managing everything. So,I am a bit of a polytheist. Not quite a neo-pagan, but just a bit of a polytheist. Now I am attending a Unitarian church every now and then and consider myself a Unitarian-leaning person. But I do have my criticism on my newfound religion. I believe that most people need some kind of spiritual rituals and I came to believe that Unitarianism is the least insane kind of all. (and yes, I am also interested in the teachings of Buddha.) To some of you guys, I am definitely on my highway to eternal damnation, since I chose to reject Jesus as my lord and savior.

See, I believe in God or gods. But I simply can't believe that God is wholly good. I just can't anymore. That's a part of reasons why I won't go back to Christianity. I gotta confess, I believe that Bible is just a marketing and advertisement for God. And it's a very exaggerated one. When I came to believe that, I just felt empty and hopeless because the promises and covenants of the Bible were what I wholeheartedly relid on for most of my life...

Well, whatever you choose to believe in (supernatural-wise) is as good as any other, so just pick something that you'd really like :)


#8    IamsSon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

View Postranrod, on 29 January 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Well, whatever you choose to believe in (supernatural-wise) is as good as any other, so just pick something that you'd really like :)
Really?  Any one is as good as any other?  Nowhere else in human experience is this true, which in and of it's own would argue that it is not true when it comes to spirituality.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#9    Amalthe

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

Ron/ Peter,
it's only the matter of marketing as you stated. However in this case marketing works against Christian God. Because He respects free will, He is in no position to exaggerate, give human fallible traits,  falsely deceipt His personality and viewpoints, unfortunately humans do that for Him, so that at the end His image is perverted version of what people thought God should be like.
And advertizing and deceiving is Adversary greatest weapon.
But to counter that, God gave us Love, and Love cover every would and mends every doubt. I know God exist because if not, Love wouldn't exist since it has no evolutionary purpose. And you have every right to doubt everything you learned and thought to be truth, be it coming form Bible, Kuran, Zaratrustra or whomever. Just turn yourself towards your own consciousness and think about what is worthy living for? Pray to God, whatever His name is, and think is simple altruistic life as Jesus lived something that we all should strive for? Be steadfast, humble and honest and you shall receive your answers.


#10    Rlyeh

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:08 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Really?  Any one is as good as any other?  Nowhere else in human experience is this true, which in and of it's own would argue that it is not true when it comes to spirituality.
If they are all wrong, then they are truly equal.


#11    IamsSon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 29 January 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

If they are all wrong, then they are truly equal.
Actually, that is not true, even if they are all false, they are still not the same.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#12    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Actually, that is not true, even if they are all false, they are still not the same.

True, but 'equal' is not equivalent to 'the same'.  The idea that the earth is the center of the universe is 'equal' to the idea that the moon is as far as being able to explain the movement of celestial bodies, which is that they are both pretty much equally bad as explanations for this.  So somewhere in 'human experience', it appears that two different explanations are 'as good as any other', or more relevantly put, as 'bad' as any other (for particular people's definition of 'as good' and 'as bad' of course).  This example also has the advantage of actually dealing with something that we have pretty good reason to think exists, celestial bodies, as opposed to 'spirituality' which presumably is referring to a spirit that no one has yet shown to exist at all.

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#13    SpiritWriter

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:31 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 29 January 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

No. God is neither amazing nor good. it's all marketing.

God is amazing and good. It depends on who you make as your god. I choose the god who is great, powerful, awesome and amazing... marketing for what? The church or your soul? You have to put yourself in the arena of care to build your spiritual health.. viewing god as negative is depleting and really gives the devil more credit than he's worth. I was recently told that we have the power not to get rid of energy, but to transform it.. light conquers darkness by transforming it into light, therefore the light is built upon and becomes more powerful. Dont let god be an upsetting idea that has been marketed to you but a true experience that transforms your life into one of triumph, happiness and healthy living that extends to those around you... you can experience this at the same time you are shedding your old dogmas, shedding what is wrong while keeping what is right and shuffling in new ideas can be psychologically straining but this is the evolution of our souls we are talking about. It is our right, our benefit and our ultimate primal desire to grow spiritually and will be imposible to do (growing meaning advancing - going higher) if we think the forces have it in for us.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#14    Rlyeh

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:06 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Actually, that is not true, even if they are all false, they are still not the same.
Depends want you are measuring. Obviously they aren't the same religion, however their validity are equal.


#15    ranrod

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:19 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 29 January 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Really?  Any one is as good as any other?  Nowhere else in human experience is this true, which in and of it's own would argue that it is not true when it comes to spirituality.
Rlyeh answered correctly for me :)   All options are equally un-provable and equally unfounded. To your point, different religions preach different ways of life so picking the religion of c'thulu, for example, might be bad for society whereas picking something like Karmanaut might be more harmonious with society.  Expecting Jeremy to be somewhat of a good citizen, I anticipated he would pick something harmless.





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