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#1    zaqwsx

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

Hello. I know all of you have no responsibility of answering any of my questions. but any kind of response will deeply be appreciated by my wholeness.
I'm a believer for a year, but purely believed with it for only the past 3 weeks. i have difficulty in rejoicing again with the physical reality because all of my readings of ufo contact books have enriched and nourished 95% of my questions about life the past 21 years. to tell you, i judge the genuineness of those books when i unconsciously become hooked with it and surprisingly realize that i finish its entirety, cover to cover, in just one sitting.
now upon observation, i realized that no matter how many tons of evidences, pictures, videos, books, or whatever accounts presented, one has a 99% possibility to reject the existence and the brotherly connection between earthmen and them.
so my questions are. how do you assess the pure readiness of a person to believe what he believed to be the lie? how would you tell him that the truth presented to him by the government, the mainstream scientists, and the so-called always-right science non-fictions books are not entirely the truth at all? how would you make a person feel how badly we missing the vastness of the universe and the extravagance of the cosmic brotherhood? how would you say to the people who you always share your foods with in the same table that "hey mom, dad, you know what, i've figured it out what god is, what life is, what our purposes are, etc. etc."
you may think that i'm mad but i highly respect that because it's anybody's freewill to make personal convictions. but to tell you,  sometimes i doubt the things that i've read and the utopic feelings i've felt while digesting the "knowledges" presented in those books. and the possibility of insanity has been always kicked off by the satisfaction and heavenly feeling my soul continually acquires. and also, to calm my mind, i stare at the sky very often thinking that "hey rose, if when you look up and the sky is not there, then everything you saw and felt is nothing but pure imagination, but if so it is there (which have always and will forever will be, undoubtedly), then all the billions of stars, the billions of galaxies and the infinity of the infinite does, simply, exist."

i know i'm a nobody here, but still i'm hoping for answers. i went here so desperately because nobody in my home, my town, or even my country seemed to be willing to take the subject. thank you in advance to those who read and to those who would reply.
have a nice day.


#2    synchronomy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:58 PM

View Postzaqwsx, on 15 October 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Hello. I know all of you have no responsibility of answering any of my questions. but any kind of response will deeply be appreciated by my wholeness.
I'm a believer for a year, but purely believed with it for only the past 3 weeks. i have difficulty in rejoicing again with the physical reality because all of my readings of ufo contact books have enriched and nourished 95% of my questions about life the past 21 years. to tell you, i judge the genuineness of those books when i unconsciously become hooked with it and surprisingly realize that i finish its entirety, cover to cover, in just one sitting.
now upon observation, i realized that no matter how many tons of evidences, pictures, videos, books, or whatever accounts presented, one has a 99% possibility to reject the existence and the brotherly connection between earthmen and them.
so my questions are. how do you assess the pure readiness of a person to believe what he believed to be the lie? how would you tell him that the truth presented to him by the government, the mainstream scientists, and the so-called always-right science non-fictions books are not entirely the truth at all? how would you make a person feel how badly we missing the vastness of the universe and the extravagance of the cosmic brotherhood? how would you say to the people who you always share your foods with in the same table that "hey mom, dad, you know what, i've figured it out what god is, what life is, what our purposes are, etc. etc."
you may think that i'm mad but i highly respect that because it's anybody's freewill to make personal convictions. but to tell you,  sometimes i doubt the things that i've read and the utopic feelings i've felt while digesting the "knowledges" presented in those books. and the possibility of insanity has been always kicked off by the satisfaction and heavenly feeling my soul continually acquires. and also, to calm my mind, i stare at the sky very often thinking that "hey rose, if when you look up and the sky is not there, then everything you saw and felt is nothing but pure imagination, but if so it is there (which have always and will forever will be, undoubtedly), then all the billions of stars, the billions of galaxies and the infinity of the infinite does, simply, exist."

i know i'm a nobody here, but still i'm hoping for answers. i went here so desperately because nobody in my home, my town, or even my country seemed to be willing to take the subject. thank you in advance to those who read and to those who would reply.
have a nice day.
There seems no doubt that there are things going on in the World which you won't hear about on CNN or any mainstream media.
The fact that you have accepted that does not change your reality.  It doesn't "shatter" the elements which are fundamental to your existance.  It's important you live your life to your full potential and don't get "freaked out" because you've been prompted to do some deep thinking.
From the sounds of it ( I could be wrong, but) you have read numerous books and come to some conclusion.
The most important thing to realize is that just because someone writes a book, it does not mean the content is true.
This is especially true of ufology.
I can assure you, there is far more nonsense published than there is fact.
Many, many authors present their own speculative conjecture as if it is cold, hard fact.  Many are so good at it that they could convince many people that the Earth is hollow (bet you read that one).
No one has all the answers.
Many self-professed experts are people with an over-active imagination with access to Google and Youtube.

It's important that you seek proof for any claims you hear about.  Maintaining an open mind does not mean believe everything you read.
Much as we stereotype people as either believers or skeptics...the healthiest approach to view the subject from a scientific perspective and seek confirmation for everything.
Personally I'm a believer with a healthy buffer of skepticism.
There's many authors and documentary producers out there who are just doing it to make money.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#3    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

I don't consider myself a "believer" in anything, since I know there is real evidence for ETs and UFOs, know it for a fact.

There's no point in getting bogged down in these trivial arguments with "skeptics" whose only purpose is to deny everything and ignore the cases that they can't explain.  They do that all the time on here, as they do everywhere else.  Nothing new about that.


#4    Quaentum

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:17 PM

[facetious]
That's right.  There's no use to listen to anyone who might apply logic, common sense and critical thinking to a story or claim. It's much better to accept everything that you read in books and especially on the internet.
[/facetious]

Seriously, ask for evidence to support any story or claim that you read or hear.  Instead of being a believer, be a true skeptic.  The kind that will listen to stories, not dismiss them out of hand, but is not afraid to ask questions and ask for evidence.  I am sure that even MacGuffin will admit there are an increasing number of people out there that just want to see if they can fool the public with their hoaxes.  Skepticism is the only way to really weed them out.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#5    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:22 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 15 October 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

[facetious]
I am sure that even MacGuffin will admit there are an increasing number of people out there that just want to see if they can fool the public with their hoaxes.  Skepticism is the only way to really weed them out.

I'm not very easy to fool since I have already been through all this evidence many times over the decades.

When I say that I know something, that's not just idle talk based on something I saw on the Internet.  I knew about these things long before the Internet existed.


#6    zoser

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

View Postzaqwsx, on 15 October 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:


i know i'm a nobody here, .....................

Everybody is somebody, rather than a nobody.  Welcome to the forum.  Now what are you asking?

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#7    Quaentum

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:57 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 15 October 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

I'm not very easy to fool since I have already been through all this evidence many times over the decades.

When I say that I know something, that's not just idle talk based on something I saw on the Internet.  I knew about these things long before the Internet existed.

The problem is that the first casualty of the internet was the truth.  Since anyone can claim absolutely anything about anything on the internet, the need for evidence is even greater here.

Your last statement is a perfect example.  You claim you knew long before the internet.  Have you provided evidence to support the claim?  If yes then your claim is validated and can be separated from the countless others that are unevidenced.  If no, then you claim remains just that a claim that to any but yourself here on UM is nothing more or less.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#8    synchronomy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 15 October 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

I don't consider myself a "believer" in anything, since I know there is real evidence for ETs and UFOs, know it for a fact.

There's no point in getting bogged down in these trivial arguments with "skeptics" whose only purpose is to deny everything and ignore the cases that they can't explain.  They do that all the time on here, as they do everywhere else.  Nothing new about that.
I think you and I are in the same boat on the subject.
I am a believer, in that I, like you, have been privy to information that makes the existance of ET's and their engagement with this planet a foregone conclusion in our own minds.
"Knowing it for a fact" as you say, and not considering yourself a "believer" is really just finding the right name for it.  I'm not sure off the top of my head what term would be appropriate, but for me believer is close enough.
For me it doesn't mean that every time I see photos or videos detailing a supposed ET event that I automatically swallow it whole.  I view it with a healthy dose of skepticism until I see certain elements pop up that makes me say (in my own mind).."aha, it's them again.

The original poster here made a statement that I focussed my attention on:

how would you say to the people who you always share your foods with in the same table that "hey mom, dad, you know what, i've figured it out what god is, what life is, what our purposes are, etc. etc."

...and from the sounds of it they came to this conclusion by reading one book cover to cover in one sitting.
That must be one helluva book and this is why I am saying to the OP that a little healthy skepticism might be a good idea here.
As you well know, there is an ample supply of absolute nonsense relating to the subject at hand.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#9    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:04 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 15 October 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

The problem is that the first casualty of the internet was the truth.  Since anyone can claim absolutely anything about anything on the internet, the need for evidence is even greater here.

Your last statement is a perfect example.  You claim you knew long before the internet.  Have you provided evidence to support the claim?  If yes then your claim is validated and can be separated from the countless others that are unevidenced.  If no, then you claim remains just that a claim that to any but yourself here on UM is nothing more or less.


You make it sound like we are all in some kind of high school science class here and I have never heard of any of this before or given it any consideration.  LOL


#10    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:13 PM

You could take your skepticism to the extreme limits of Descartes where he is left with nothing at all except the certainty that he is some kind of thinking entity that must necessarily exist in the ontological sense, although how he then goes about proving the existence of the universe and physical objects has always seemed a little bizarre to me.

In other words, radical skepticism is always going to reach some type of absolute limit or dead end that is not particularly helpful and even begins to loo like an absurdity or parody of itself.

But yes I have heard of all these things before.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 15 October 2012 - 06:16 PM.


#11    Ashotep

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

People aren't going to be 100% believers in UFO's or that intelligent alien life exists until one lands on the White House lawn.  I think the evidence for them is too strong to dismiss everything as overactive imagination or trying to manipulate events.

I have a feeling they have been coming here for a very long time.  Do I have any concrete evidence, no.  There is also no concrete evidence that they don't exist either.  I just don't feel like in all the universe the Earth is that special.


#12    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 15 October 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

For me it doesn't mean that every time I see photos or videos detailing a supposed ET event that I automatically swallow it whole.  I view it with a healthy dose of skepticism until I see certain elements pop up that makes me say (in my own mind).."aha, it's them again.


No, I definitely don't jump on every single UFO case either and say that it's definitely more proof of them, but neither do I believe that Project Blue Book and the Condon Committee had 95% of them explained--not even close.  They were just cooking the books because they were ordered to do so.


#13    synchronomy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 15 October 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

No, I definitely don't jump on every single UFO case either and say that it's definitely more proof of them, but neither do I believe that Project Blue Book and the Condon Committee had 95% of them explained--not even close.  They were just cooking the books because they were ordered to do so.
PBB had a mandate to discredit or debunk every case they encountered.  They existed to apply the "swamp gas" explanation to every one.  They would stop at nothing, even to label perfectly sane, good people as mentally unstable.  When they had satisfactorily stereotyped all "believers" as the tinfoil hat club, they were disbanded.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#14    zoser

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

View PostHilander, on 15 October 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

People aren't going to be 100% believers in UFO's or that intelligent alien life exists until one lands on the White House lawn.  I think the evidence for them is too strong to dismiss everything as overactive imagination or trying to manipulate events.

I have a feeling they have been coming here for a very long time.  Do I have any concrete evidence, no.  There is also no concrete evidence that they don't exist either.  I just don't feel like in all the universe the Earth is that special.

I'm a believer!  Never seen one.  I did photograph something strange over Channel Islands the other day though.

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#15    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:54 PM

Im a believer and like synch said theres way more going on in this world then thats told on CNN.

COME WITH ME. OVERWHELMING POWER AND MADNESS AWAIT

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE




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