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The Garden of Eden


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#16    Reann

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:50 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 June 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

The Bible specifically  mentions 4 rivers:


From:

A Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis
The Hebrew text literally translated word for word


Jeff A. Benner 2007



“Elohiym [Powers]” made all of the
trees spring up from the ground
being a craving to appearance and
functional for nourishment and a
tree of the life in the midst of the
garden and a tree of the
discernment of function and
dysfunction,

and a river going out from “Eden
[Pleasure]” to make the garden
drink and from there he will be
divided apart existing to four heads,

the title of the one is “Pishon
[Scatter]”, the one going around all
of the land of the “Hhawilah
[Twisting]” where there is the gold,

and the gold of that land is
functional, there is the amber and
the stone of the shoham,

and the title of the second river is
“Giyhhon [Burst]”, he is the one
going around all of the land of
“Kush [Black]”,

and the title of the third river is
“Hhideqel [Rapid]”, he is the one
walking eastward of “Ashur [Step]”
and the fourth river he is “Perat
[Break]”,

and “YHWH [He exists]” of
“Elohiym [Powers]” took the
human and he caused him to be
deposited in the garden of “Eden
[Pleasure]” to serve her and to
guard her,

http://www.scribd.co...d-word-for-word


.
Thanks for sharing that . I do remember the story somewhat. I also recall the names of the rivers and all. I want to ask you something though ,a two part question, do you think it's just a metaphor story or do you think it's the place where first life of humans came into being?

Second part  of the question  relates to the story of Cain , Cain killed  his brother Able right? After that he stressed that he was afraid to leave where he lived with his family , which would be who Adam his dad, Eve his mom , right ? He was afraid because of what he did , he said that the people in the land would kill him when they find out what he did , or something like that. I question the authenticity of the  biblical story  and understand it as  being a metaphor  because , if they were the first  human life on earth , then where did the other people come from that Cain feared ? That never made any sense to me.


#17    danielost

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:04 AM

Because cain and able were not adam's and eve's first or only children.  They were the first who worshiped god after they became adults.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#18    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:18 AM

View PostReann, on 20 June 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Thanks for sharing that . I do remember the story somewhat. I also recall the names of the rivers and all. I want to ask you something though ,a two part question, do you think it's just a metaphor story or do you think it's the place where first life of humans came into being?

Second part  of the question  relates to the story of Cain , Cain killed  his brother Able right? After that he stressed that he was afraid to leave where he lived with his family , which would be who Adam his dad, Eve his mom , right ? He was afraid because of what he did , he said that the people in the land would kill him when they find out what he did , or something like that. I question the authenticity of the  biblical story  and understand it as  being a metaphor  because , if they were the first  human life on earth , then where did the other people come from that Cain feared ? That never made any sense to me.

Of course it's mainly a creation myth, like many cultures and civilizations had. However, it could originally be based on some ancient homeland that the distant ancestors of the Hebrews (or related people) had to leave because living there became too tough, for whatever reasons.

Maybe in their original homeland they didn't have to break their backs toiling the land, but wandered around (naked/innocent) like hunter-gatherers.

And where did all the people come from? Like you said, it is a metaphor. And I am even willing to suggest that a large part of the original legend got lost.

+++

EDIT:

"for whatever reasons"...

Remember the Cherubim and the Flaming sword guarding Eden, and preventing Adam and Eve from returning?

Maybe their original homeland got destroyed by some impacting comet?


Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 20 June 2013 - 07:57 AM.


#19    Br Cornelius

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:22 AM

View PostReann, on 20 June 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Thanks for sharing that . I do remember the story somewhat. I also recall the names of the rivers and all. I want to ask you something though ,a two part question, do you think it's just a metaphor story or do you think it's the place where first life of humans came into being?

Second part  of the question  relates to the story of Cain , Cain killed  his brother Able right? After that he stressed that he was afraid to leave where he lived with his family , which would be who Adam his dad, Eve his mom , right ? He was afraid because of what he did , he said that the people in the land would kill him when they find out what he did , or something like that. I question the authenticity of the  biblical story  and understand it as  being a metaphor  because , if they were the first  human life on earth , then where did the other people come from that Cain feared ? That never made any sense to me.
The story of Cain and Abel is most probably a metaphor for the transition from Pastoralism to tillage Agriculture and the conflict between the two groups which the land use difference created.

The stories of Genesis undoubtedly span a period of many thousands, or tens of thousands, of years even though it appears to be a very short span.


Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 20 June 2013 - 08:30 AM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#20    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:30 AM

And one could imagine a very different interpretation concerning Eden, when you take into account that the literal translation of "Beth Eden" is "House of Pleasure"...

:whistle:


#21    danielost

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:14 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 June 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

And one could imagine a very different interpretation concerning Eden, when you take into account that the literal translation of "Beth Eden" is "House of Pleasure"...

:whistle:

I believe the word is paradise.  Where the good people go after death to wait for the thousand years of peace.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#22    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:18 AM

View Postdanielost, on 20 June 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

I believe the word is paradise.  Where the good people go after death to wait for the thousand years of peace.

"Paradise" comes from Persian/Iranian, and was much later introduced (Septuagint) in the translation of the Hebrew Bible:

http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

The original expression was "Beth Eden" or "Eden".


#23    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

OK, it appears things got mixed up in my head, lol.

The original expression is "Gan Eden", not "Beth Eden".
http://en.wikipedia..../Garden_of_Eden

And an older/other form of "Beth Eden"is "Bit Adini" :

Bit Adini, A city or region of Syria, called sometimes Bit Adini in Assyrian sources, was an Aramaean state that existed as an independent kingdom during the 10th and 9th Centuries BC, with its capital at Til Barsib (now Tell Ahmar).[1] In 856 BC, the kingdom was conquered and absorbed into the Assyrian Empire during the reign of Shalmaneser III. It is usually thought to have been in the bend of the Euphrates River, south of Carchemish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_Adini

Amos 1:5

I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.


http://biblehub.com/amos/1-5.htm


.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 June 2013 - 11:41 AM.


#24    Reann

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:45 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 June 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Of course it's mainly a creation myth, like many cultures and civilizations had. However, it could originally be based on some ancient homeland that the distant ancestors of the Hebrews (or related people) had to leave because living there became too tough, for whatever reasons.

Maybe in their original homeland they didn't have to break their backs toiling the land, but wandered around (naked/innocent) like hunter-gatherers.

And where did all the people come from? Like you said, it is a metaphor. And I am even willing to suggest that a large part of the original legend got lost.

+++

EDIT:

"for whatever reasons"...

Remember the Cherubim and the Flaming sword guarding Eden, and preventing Adam and Eve from returning?

Maybe their original homeland got destroyed by some impacting comet?


Posted Image
Maybe. I do agree with you , that the complete legend is not completely told , it may not have been recorded soon enough before it was all forgotten...I never understood why God would keep Adam and Eve from their home like that , in my heart it just didn't make true sense of who God is to me.It just didn't feel right.

There are other legends that say the sword reference may have been something other, that it may have been a sort of battle there, like that the garden may have been a place where genetic manipulation had occurred on the races of humankind...Have you ever heard of those stories before? I'm totally not suggesting they are true...Just asking is really all...

I don't know , i don't know how life truly began . i don't think that we crawled from out of the ocean though either..And, i don't think that God literally made us from the dirt of the earth as told in the bible...

I posted something of 8 U.S soldiers that went missing over in Afghanistan when get this , they found a flying machine in a cave. But where have the soldiers gone? I don;t think it's a hoax, maybe I'm wrong but from what is public information government officials world wide went there concerning that find...

It's said to have markings and all and that it may be something of Zoroastrian???  Persian??? this link is not the video link where someone is speaking about this find, this link is just an article...  http://www.theliving...ng_Machine.html


#25    danielost

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:30 PM

Abraham came from a city in sumera. That city is still there.  I heard it mentioned during the second iraq war.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#26    danielost

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:35 PM

View PostReann, on 20 June 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:


Maybe. I do agree with you , that the complete legend is not completely told , it may not have been recorded soon enough before it was all forgotten...I never understood why God would keep Adam and Eve from their home like that , in my heart it just didn't make true sense of who God is to me.It just didn't feel right.

There are other legends that say the sword reference may have been something other, that it may have been a sort of battle there, like that the garden may have been a place where genetic manipulation had occurred on the races of humankind...Have you ever heard of those stories before? I'm totally not suggesting they are true...Just asking is really all...

I don't know , i don't know how life truly began . i don't think that we crawled from out of the ocean though either..And, i don't think that God literally made us from the dirt of the earth as told in the bible...

I posted something of 8 U.S soldiers that went missing over in Afghanistan when get this , they found a flying machine in a cave. But where have the soldiers gone? I don;t think it's a hoax, maybe I'm wrong but from what is public information government officials world wide went there concerning that find...

It's said to have markings and all and that it may be something of Zoroastrian???  Persian??? this link is not the video link where someone is speaking about this find, this link is just an article...  http://www.theliving...ng_Machine.html


I believe god was keeping them out of paradise.  The only way you get there is be a good person and die.  Paradise is the garden of eden.hich is why the living can't find it.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#27    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:42 PM

View Postdanielost, on 20 June 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Abraham came from a city in Sumeria. That city is still there.  I heard it mentioned during the second Iraq war.

But maybe they were wrong.


View PostAbramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:


<snip>

Harran seems to have been the home of Abram (Gen 12:1,4), not Ur, though Ur, according to Cyrus Gordon, was the nearby town later called Edessa (Urfa) but which was called Urfu, at that time, not the Ur near the junction of the two rivers much further south. Apollonius Molo, even in the first century BC, tells a different story about the origin of Abraham from Genesis. The Patriarch was born in the mountainous edges of Syria, fringing on the northern steppes, after his ancestors had fled from Armenia. This description fits the same place—it is the neighbourhood of Urfa and Harran, a place known as Beth Eden (Bit Adini)! Biblicists have always know where Eden was, but they did not care to say.

http://www.askwhy.co...Patriarchs1.php

<snip>





#28    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:47 PM

View Postdanielost, on 20 June 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I believe god was keeping them out of paradise.  The only way you get there is be a good person and die.  Paradise is the garden of eden.which is why the living can't find it.

I think it was nothing but a fabrication based on an ages old oral tradition about people having to leave an easy living and change it for a much more harsh life.

And, like I said,"paradise" is not a word from the Hebrew Bible. It was a word used by Christian translators.

The whole thing of some god chasing them out of Eden may be nothing but people trying to find an explanation many ages later for why they had to leave a good place to live in. To them it must have been obvious their ancestors must have been punished for not obeying their god or one of their laws.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 June 2013 - 07:00 PM.


#29    danielost

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:39 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 June 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:



But maybe they were wrong.

No' the report didn't say anything beyond it being captured. I had just read about abraham which is why it got my attention.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#30    Roybat

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

I subscribe to this view.. http://geology.about...kryanpitman.htm  These two gentlemen and scholars have thoroughly researched the topic and come up with the most  plausible theory I have ever read.





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