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Bradley Manning Trial


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#1    Babe Ruth

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:37 PM

http://tinyurl.com/7fhevo2


Consistent with making Manning a scapegoat for government crimes, the DoD is witholding documents from Manning's defense team that may establish his innocence or reduce his sentence.

Star Chamber is what the government is striving for.


#2    and then

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:28 PM

I wonder if Mr Manning had any idea just how messed up a situation he was inserting himself into when he decided it would be fun to &^%$## with the government over some of their SECRETS.  Secrets are the life blood of government and he didn't just shine light on one.  Oh, no.  He wanted to be a "WIKILEAKS" hero by gimeny!!!  And he is.... the left are fawning over him as though he were a martyr.  They are indignant that the government he agreed to work for would get a little upset with him for just deciding on his own that 10s of thousands of classified documents should be read by everyone in the world who cared to...  The young man was a US Army SOLDIER.  He gave up the right to decide which information could be made public when he took that MOS he was part of....  There were proper chains he could have followed to protest his conscience over what he was seeing and reading.  He didn't do this,I assume, because he knew it would do no good AND ruin his career.  Yet, knowing this he decided to SNEAK thousands of documents and images out on a dvd or cd.... Those are the charges I've heard, anyway.
To me if he had released the information and simply turned himself over and admitted his guilt and explained why he did it I would think of him as a conscientious objector and while maybe not a hero, at least a person worthy of greater respect.  He just acted like a criminal.  
My prediction is that the Army will eat him alive.  IF he ever gets out of prison it will be almost impossible to find work...unless maybe on LinkTV.
What he did was wrong and cowardly and, frankly, not very bright.  People who act like that often wind up dead or on the wrong side of locked doors.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#3    Babe Ruth

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 07:33 PM

Ah yes, in the view of today's christian, one is a criminal for revealing government crimes.  Orwell would be chuckling.

In the eyes of today's american citizen, torture and assassination are virtues, and keeping those atrocities secret is a guarantee for entrance into Heaven.

Onward, Christian Soldiers.  God & Government=One & the Same.


#4    and then

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:52 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 June 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Ah yes, in the view of today's christian, one is a criminal for revealing government crimes.  Orwell would be chuckling.

In the eyes of today's american citizen, torture and assassination are virtues, and keeping those atrocities secret is a guarantee for entrance into Heaven.

Onward, Christian Soldiers.  God & Government=One & the Same.
You are the one making faith an issue in this.  It seems to fill some primal urge you have to denigrate others as hypocrites.  The odd thing is that it's YOU who's working off some sense of spirituality where rules don't matter if they just don't fit your picture of right and wrong.  Is the fix that it makes you feel superior in some way to expound the virtues of a person who lied and cheated...but for the right reasons?  Ends justify the means?  And if a handful of soldiers or government personnel of other stripe are captured or killed because of his revelations - would he still be a hero?  That Apache gun down happened a few minutes and a few blocks from where a firefight had just ensued.  It was a tragedy and you want to see our government humiliated and spat on by our enemies FOR A MISTAKE.   Did your time in Viet Nam just make you hate everything about America?

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#5    preacherman76

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 11:30 AM

View Postand then, on 06 June 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

You are the one making faith an issue in this.  It seems to fill some primal urge you have to denigrate others as hypocrites.  The odd thing is that it's YOU who's working off some sense of spirituality where rules don't matter if they just don't fit your picture of right and wrong.  Is the fix that it makes you feel superior in some way to expound the virtues of a person who lied and cheated...but for the right reasons?  Ends justify the means?  And if a handful of soldiers or government personnel of other stripe are captured or killed because of his revelations - would he still be a hero?  That Apache gun down happened a few minutes and a few blocks from where a firefight had just ensued.  It was a tragedy and you want to see our government humiliated and spat on by our enemies FOR A MISTAKE.   Did your time in Viet Nam just make you hate everything about America?

The mistake our government made was being there unconstitutionaly to begin with. Everything was a criminal act from that point on. We are either governed by the rule of law, or we are not. Manning is a hero for exposing this crIminal government.The fact that he cant even get a fair trial, the very foundation of American principles, more then testifies to that fact. This is a witch hunt meant to misdirect exposing the tyranny of evil men.

These are the exact type of men our Lord speaks of. And they will know that he is the Lord, when he lays his vengence on them.

Edited by preacherman76, 06 June 2012 - 11:34 AM.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#6    Babe Ruth

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:40 PM

Thank you Preacherman, for stating the simple fact that has eluded AndThen--our invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan were illegal.  They were military aggression, pure and simple, brought by fraud and deception from the highest levels of the US government.

AndThen, with all due respect sir, it is YOU who has difficulty in telling right from wrong.  The government commits innumerable crimes against humanity, and YOU defend those crimes with some bizarre form of rationalization.  It seems to me your religious value system has failed you.

The government murders innocents, and you defend the government actions.

One brave young man puts his life on the line to reveal those crimes, and you attack him.

If I prayed, I would be praying for you.


#7    preacherman76

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:27 PM

Not to pick on and then, we dont agree on much, but I think he is good company, but Im litteraly baffled by the christians rights view of politics today. And Im one of them. I break bread with them. My children play with thier children. We read and believe in the same word of God, handed to us from long ago, I believe from everlasting. I was actualy kicked off a christian site I had gone to for years, for calling out the people who wanted to go to war with Iran. A mod actualy called me a liberal. Now I will stand quilty before God of many many things, but being a liberal sure isnt one of them.

Ive had to break away from talking to christians about politics. They have bought the establishment left right paradigm hook line and sinker. And when a republican says its time to go to war, then in thier minds anything less would be a violation tward God himself. Never mind its admited we were lied to about Iraq. Never mind we could have gotten Osama BL years ago, and avoided the now longest war in American history. Never mind the complete and total coruption head to toe coming from our corprate sold out government. Republicans only speak gospel. You can litteraly see the outrage on thier faces when sold war propaganda. Its as though they have no ability to even think for themselfs. It breaks my heart.

Just to add, no and then I wasnt directing this whole rant tward you. Just kinda thinking out loud.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#8    Babe Ruth

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 05:41 PM

I agree Preacherman.

I was raised Catholic, and have many many friends who are of many different christian sects.  They are all good people, but I am shocked and disappointed how many of them support war and torture.  I am hugely disappointed at how few, the Unitarians are the only church I'm aware of, criticize the war (as you do) or even criticize torture.  It's really a sad comment.  IMO, it gives a terrible image to christianity when these folks do not appear to know the difference between right and wrong.

Bradley Manning did the right thing, and is now being crushed by the weight of the system and government he exposed.  That so few christians care about that illustrates modern christianity too well.

If Jimmy Carter were Prez, we probably would not be in these wars to begin with, and certainly he would not have tolerated the way they have been treating Manning.


#9    DieChecker

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:45 AM

Bradley Manning is back in the News. Seems that his Defense team is trying to play up the "Poor little Bradley" angle.

Bradley Manning testifies about detention in Wikileaks case: 'I totally started to fall apart'

Read like a bunch of Blah, blah, blah. He deserved what he's had so far at a minimum. The guy handed over 250,000 documents labeled Secret or above to a foreign national for goodness sakes.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#10    DieChecker

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:55 AM

View Postand then, on 05 June 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

There were proper chains he could have followed to protest his conscience over what he was seeing and reading.  He didn't do this,I assume, because he knew it would do no good AND ruin his career.  Yet, knowing this he decided to SNEAK thousands of documents and images out on a dvd or cd.... Those are the charges I've heard, anyway.
.....
My prediction is that the Army will eat him alive.  IF he ever gets out of prison it will be almost impossible to find work...unless maybe on LinkTV.
What he did was wrong and cowardly and, frankly, not very bright.  People who act like that often wind up dead or on the wrong side of locked doors.
He should have done just what you said and forwarded his concerns to his superior officers. Even sending stuff by email to a Congressman would have been better. Contacting JAG, or the MPs, or another branch of service would have been better. He had dozens of options and chose one of the worst ones. It could only have been worse if he's sent the data to China, or Russia, or Iran.

I too think he'll be found guilty. All the evidence is there. There is no mitigating circumstances. He might get out when he is an old man, but more likely is that he's going in for life.

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 June 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Ah yes, in the view of today's christian, one is a criminal for revealing government crimes.  Orwell would be chuckling.
That is a ignorant post. He is not in prison for exposing crimes. He is in jail for giving secret documents to a foreign national.

Anyway, there is no way Poor Lil' Bradley read all 250,000 of those documents to know if they were hiding crimes or not. It is like going out and killing everyone in a mall to kill a serial killer. It just is not done.

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Onward, Christian Soldiers.  God & Government=One & the Same.
WTH does Christianity have to do with the Traitor PFC Manning?

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#11    and then

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:56 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 04 December 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

Bradley Manning is back in the News. Seems that his Defense team is trying to play up the "Poor little Bradley" angle.

Bradley Manning testifies about detention in Wikileaks case: 'I totally started to fall apart'

Read like a bunch of Blah, blah, blah. He deserved what he's had so far at a minimum. The guy handed over 250,000 documents labeled Secret or above to a foreign national for goodness sakes.
And most importantly from my perspective, he did so while in uniform.  He USED that uniform to commit a crime and seems to have done so because he felt he was above the law.  Funny thing is THAT was his rationale against the Army - that they felt they were above the law.  My guess is that he will do some serious time behind this unless Obama pardons him in 4 years.  When soldiers start deciding which rules they'll follow we are in trouble.  I would have had no problem with him had he left the service and written a book or told everything he remembered to the press as long as he was willing to accept the consequences.  But he did the crime and now wants to be vindicated and even made a hero or martyr for it.  Not in this life.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#12    DieChecker

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:59 AM

Oh... I guess there is a plea bargan on the table...

Quote

Under the offer, Manning would plead guilty to certain charges as violations of military regulations rather than as violations of federal espionage and computer security laws. The offenses would then carry maximum prison terms totaling 16 years rather than 72.
http://www.baltimore...0,7975943.story

If I cared for him, which I don't, I'd advise him to take that offer.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#13    ninjadude

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:22 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 04 December 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

BHe deserved what he's had so far at a minimum. The guy handed over 250,000 documents labeled Secret or above to a foreign national for goodness sakes.

1) deserved? based on what? Are you a witch hunter now? straight from Salem?
2) That still must be proven
3) to be published.
4) And it was a good thing. Those secrets needed to be aired.

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
- Friedrich Nietzsche

#14    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:31 AM

Manning is neither a hero or a villain, he is possibly a man who acted upon his conscience or possibly a man who did what he did for fame.
But what he did was break the law.
Righteous and villainous lawbreakers both end up in the same place when caught though, and that's gaol.
If he acted upon his conscience then one day, in this life or the next, he'll be vindicated and if he did it for fame then he's gotten that and reaped the rewards of his avarice.
But he's not a hero, nor a villain.


#15    DieChecker

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:49 AM

View Postninjadude, on 04 December 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

1) deserved? based on what? Are you a witch hunter now? straight from Salem?
2) That still must be proven
3) to be published.
4) And it was a good thing. Those secrets needed to be aired.
Come on. It is like the guy that shot up that Batman movie in Colorado. Just the commonly known evidence is enough to convict.

The kid was practically swimming in evidence. There are log files of everything he did. The CDs he used have been collected. He tried to erase what he did on the computer and failed. The trial... like the Batman shooter... is a formality. The only way he is getting off on is a technicality, which is what the current trial sessions are about... if his case is to be thrown out due to mistreatment.

Edited by DieChecker, 04 December 2012 - 05:50 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker




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