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Shortages could force world to vegetarianism


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#76    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:12 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 August 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

It's bit different:


Vegetarianism (ie. not veganism) encompasses the practice of following plant-based diets (fruits, vegetables, etc.), with or without the inclusion of dairy products or eggs, and with the exclusion of meat (red meat, poultry, and seafood). Abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin, may also be practiced.

Semi-vegetarian diets consist largely of vegetarian foods, but may include fish or poultry, or sometimes other meats on an infrequent basis. Those with diets containing fish or poultry may define "meat" only as mammalian flesh and may identify with vegetarianism.

* Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not dairy products.

* Lacto vegetarianism includes dairy products but not eggs.

* Ovo-lacto vegetarianism (or lacto-ovo vegetarianism) includes animal/dairy products such as eggs, milk, and honey.

* Sentient vegetarianism (also known as yogic or sattvic diet), a plant based diet which may also include dairy (not eggs) and honey, but excludes anything from the onion or leek family, red lentils, durian fruit, mushrooms, blue cheeses, fermented foods or sauces, alcoholic drinks and often also excludes coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, nutmeg or any other type of stimulant such as excess sharp spices.

* Buddhist vegetarianism (also known as su vegetarianism) excludes all animal products as well as vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.

* Jain vegetarianism includes dairy but excludes eggs and honey, as well as root vegetables.


* Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.


http://en.wikipedia....i/Vegetarianism


This is also interesting:

The body can preserve stores of B12 for up to 30 years, and reuses the vitamin without destroying the substance. Clinical evidence has shown a deficiency of B12 in vegans and, to lesser degree, vegetarians.

So, when you start a vegan diet at around 30, then after 20 or 30 years you will get into problems because of a B!2 deficiency.

There are vegetarian sources of B12.

http://www.healthali...Vitamin-B12.php

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#77    keithisco

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:33 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 August 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

It's bit different:


Vegetarianism (ie. not veganism) encompasses the practice of following plant-based diets (fruits, vegetables, etc.), with or without the inclusion of dairy products or eggs, and with the exclusion of meat (red meat, poultry, and seafood). Abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin, may also be practiced.

* Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not dairy products.

* Lacto vegetarianism includes dairy products but not eggs.

* Ovo-lacto vegetarianism (or lacto-ovo vegetarianism) includes animal/dairy products such as eggs, milk, and honey.

* Sentient vegetarianism (also known as yogic or sattvic diet), a plant based diet which may also include dairy (not eggs) and honey, but excludes anything from the onion or leek family, red lentils, durian fruit, mushrooms, blue cheeses, fermented foods or sauces, alcoholic drinks and often also excludes coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, nutmeg or any other type of stimulant such as excess sharp spices.

* Buddhist vegetarianism (also known as su vegetarianism) excludes all animal products as well as
vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.

* Jain vegetarianism includes dairy but excludes eggs and honey, as well as root vegetables.

* Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.


http://en.wikipedia....i/Vegetarianism
.

Whoaaa... are you telling me that some Veggies will not eat anything from the Allium family (onions , garlic), or dairy products made from milk, or Honey none of which involves Loss of Life tom an animal??? That is just bizarre and very definitely in the camp of "Religious Tradition" rather than reality.


#78    rashore

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:39 PM

Honey can be a quirky one. It is an animal product. It is stealing food from the bees. Sometimes bees can die.


#79    questionmark

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:41 PM

View Postrashore, on 28 August 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Honey can be a quirky one. It is an animal product. It is stealing food from the bees. Sometimes bees can die.

I doubt there are many beekeeper who are stupid enough to leave less than the hive needs to survive.

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#80    Abramelin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:53 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 28 August 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

There are vegetarian sources of B12.

http://www.healthali...Vitamin-B12.php

Br Cornelius

Accept for the yeast, all the sources on that site are of animal origin: eggs and milk products. So, a vegetarian (belonging to one or two of the catagories I mentioned in my former post) won't have a lot of problems, but vegans will.


Plants are not sources of vitamin B12.

http://en.wikipedia....ism#Vitamin_B12


.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 August 2012 - 05:54 PM.


#81    Abramelin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 28 August 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Whoaaa... are you telling me that some Veggies will not eat anything from the Allium family (onions , garlic), or dairy products made from milk, or Honey none of which involves Loss of Life tom an animal??? That is just bizarre and very definitely in the camp of "Religious Tradition" rather than reality.

Personally I think this is worse: "* Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.".

If they sit on a bike and light their never ending farts, they can propel themselves cross country, lol.

When they also use onions, garlic and cabbage in their diet, they will reach dangerous speeds !!

Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 28 August 2012 - 06:04 PM.


#82    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:14 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 August 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Accept for the yeast, all the sources on that site are of animal origin: eggs and milk products. So, a vegetarian (belonging to one or two of the catagories I mentioned in my former post) won't have a lot of problems, but vegans will.


Plants are not sources of vitamin B12.

http://en.wikipedia....ism#Vitamin_B12


.
I previously said that vegans generally suffer for their beliefs. I am not a fan of Veganism.

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#83    questionmark

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:16 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 28 August 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I previously said that vegans generally suffer for their beliefs. I am not a fan of Veganism.

Br Cornelius

Hmmm... maybe we should tell them that plants also feel, even if they don't scream... could that help solve a part of the overpopulation? :devil:

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#84    rashore

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:17 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 28 August 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

I doubt there are many beekeeper who are stupid enough to leave less than the hive needs to survive.

Well no, smart beekeepers don't starve their bees. But stealing food from the bees is one of the plausible arguments for not eating honey. I think it's akin to not having dairy products because it can be thought of as stealing food from calves.


#85    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:22 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 28 August 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Hmmm... maybe we should tell them that plants also feel, even if they don't scream... could that help solve a part of the overpopulation? :devil:
How deep does the rabbit hole go .... I feel vertigious.

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#86    questionmark

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:22 PM

View Postrashore, on 28 August 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Well no, smart beekeepers don't starve their bees. But stealing food from the bees is one of the plausible arguments for not eating honey. I think it's akin to not having dairy products because it can be thought of as stealing food from calves.

Anybody who knows anything about bee keeping and animal husbandry knows that cows produce much more milk (especially our turbo cows with 8-12 gallons a day) than any calf could drink and bees produce up to 8 times the honey they need to get the hive through the winter (unless it was a year with hardly anything blooming), that is up to 40 pounds per hive-- they might need 5-6.

Only those who live in some kind of phantasy world could come to those conclusions.

Edited by questionmark, 28 August 2012 - 06:23 PM.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
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#87    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:24 PM

View Postrashore, on 28 August 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Well no, smart beekeepers don't starve their bees. But stealing food from the bees is one of the plausible arguments for not eating honey. I think it's akin to not having dairy products because it can be thought of as stealing food from calves.
Milk production in the modern factory farming system is one of the most brutal experiences imaginable. The calves are sent away to veal crates and the mothers are bred to the point where their life is short and painful.
Just to show I am not a holier than though type - I drink milk from that system. However out here in Ireland the Milk cows are not excessively overbred and the calves generally go off to become bullocks with a relatively happy life out in the fields.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 28 August 2012 - 06:26 PM.

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#88    GreenmansGod

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:30 PM

I forgot to say drain the beans and air dry, last time I did them the day before and they were cool and it made the processing easier.  You can use canned beans but they aren't as good.

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#89    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:32 PM

We use a pressure cooker to batch prepare beans. We then freezer them in usable portions which works out massively cheaper than buying beans by the tin.

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#90    Abramelin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:50 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 28 August 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Hmmm... maybe we should tell them that plants also feel, even if they don't scream... could that help solve a part of the overpopulation? :devil:

But first let them read this:

RESPONSE IN THE LIVING AND NON-LIVING
BY
JAGADIS CHUNDER BOSE, M.A.(Cantab.), D.Sc.(Lond.)
PROFESSOR, PRESIDENCY COLLEGE, CALCUTTA
1902


http://www.gutenberg...6-h/18986-h.htm

Chapter V
PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE EFFECTS OF SINGLE STIMULUS AND OF SUPERPOSED STIMULI

http://www.gutenberg...h.htm#CHAPTER_V

CHAPTER VI
PLANT RESPONSE—ON DIPHASIC VARIATION


http://www.gutenberg....htm#CHAPTER_VI

CHAPTER VII
PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE RELATION BETWEEN STIMULUS AND RESPONSE


http://www.gutenberg...htm#CHAPTER_VII

CHAPTER VIII
PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE INFLUENCE OF TEMPERATURE


http://www.gutenberg...tm#CHAPTER_VIII

CHAPTER IX
PLANT RESPONSE—EFFECT OF ANÆSTHETICS AND POISONS


http://www.gutenberg....htm#CHAPTER_IX

.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 August 2012 - 07:08 PM.





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