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The Woman clothed with the Sun...

symbology church revelation

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#136    Jor-el

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostPadre Pio, on 24 May 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

The Woman is Mary, The mediatrix, about to give birth to Christ , the Returning King, after His birth He will be presented to the father   Rev5,   before he returns as the new Temple in the New jerusalem, rev 21

there is safety from the dragon under her wings

Welcome to UM, Padre Pio, I hope you find your stay here, rewarding and uplifting.

I have to ask, where is it written that Mary is a mediatrix of anything?

Sure I can accept that the woman is a metaphor for Mary, as well as a metaphor for Israel, since the Messiah was to come from the seed of Israel. Mary in effect personified the nation as a whole in the prophecy.

Edited by Jor-el, 24 May 2013 - 08:51 PM.

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#137    kystranger

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:19 PM

I'm just curious what Jor-el and others think about this youtube video that is floating around.  It was passed to me by my fundamentalist sister.  Its roughly 37 minutes long, so be patient :)




#138    Jor-el

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:46 PM

View Postkystranger, on 07 June 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

I'm just curious what Jor-el and others think about this youtube video that is floating around.  It was passed to me by my fundamentalist sister.  Its roughly 37 minutes long, so be patient :)



Hi kystranger, I must say that I really enjoyed the video, although I may have one or two different thoughts regarding the information that I do not totally agree with. His video is compelling stuff.

1. He may have it wrong, and even he admits as much.

2. Although his structure is sound, I don't see what the blood moons have do with it, but that may be simple lack of information on my part.

The one thing that would define the end times as about to start is the construction of the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem. If that happens, then we are on borrowed time. Since the construction alone would take more than a year because it won't be made of concrete, I think that news of this would precede all the events in question.

That would be a little hard to do, unless Israel can get rid of the Islamic Shrine known as the Dome of the Rock, although it may be possible to construct the Temple if you leave out a section of it that contains the shrine in question. The Arabs wouldn't stand for it and there would be motive for a rather large war if this happened.

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#139    Ogbin

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:55 PM

The woman is ISRAEL.

   Genesis 37:9


#140    kystranger

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

Hi Jor-el.  I too agree that it is a fascinating argument the video makes, and his evidence is without a doubt very convincing.  Some other things I've read that sort of sets up a timeline and possible events: the rapture of the church (assuming a pre-tribulation rapture), the war of Ezekiel 38-39 (supposedly this will restart the special relationship between the God and the Jews and they will demand the temple be rebuilt), the rebuilding of the temple, and then the start of Daniel's 70th week.  With the destruction of the Muslim coalition against Israel, perhaps they aren't in a position to stop Israel from rebuilding the temple?  Quite possibly the anti-Christ convinces everyone to let the Jews rebuild the temple.  He is supposed to be a man of peace and negotiation after all.  Have you read about Rabbi Judah ben Samuel's prophecy?  If not, here is the link:

http://destination-y...he-messiah.html

I think these are very interesting times we live in with regards to prophecy, and I look forward to your response.  Oh, and thank you for the map above.  I had never seen it.


#141    Jor-el

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:54 PM

View Postkystranger, on 08 June 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Hi Jor-el.  I too agree that it is a fascinating argument the video makes, and his evidence is without a doubt very convincing.  Some other things I've read that sort of sets up a timeline and possible events: the rapture of the church (assuming a pre-tribulation rapture), the war of Ezekiel 38-39 (supposedly this will restart the special relationship between the God and the Jews and they will demand the temple be rebuilt), the rebuilding of the temple, and then the start of Daniel's 70th week.  With the destruction of the Muslim coalition against Israel, perhaps they aren't in a position to stop Israel from rebuilding the temple?  Quite possibly the anti-Christ convinces everyone to let the Jews rebuild the temple.  He is supposed to be a man of peace and negotiation after all.  Have you read about Rabbi Judah ben Samuel's prophecy?  If not, here is the link:

http://destination-y...he-messiah.html

I think these are very interesting times we live in with regards to prophecy, and I look forward to your response.  Oh, and thank you for the map above.  I had never seen it.

I agree, but there is no such thing as a Muslim coalition to be destroyed, if such an act was ever put forth by Israel, there wouldn't be a single Muslim who would take it sitting down. It would be war, not on a political front but on a religious front, no holds barred.

For the Anti-Christ to act as mediator, he would right now have to be a known political figure in the world stage, he couldn't sprout from nowhere, no-one would give him legitimacy. We are talking of events that are supposed to happen according to the video within the next year or two after all. Which the main reason for my doubt. Things don't just happen from one moment to the next, they happen over time and the world is not close enough to the tipping line for events to happen that way.

By this I don't mean that the astronomic features the author of the video are wrong, but it does mean that a lot of things have to happen pretty quickly for it to fit in the given timeline.

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#142    Jesus Loves Us

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:04 AM

It makes me wonder what this new temple is going to be. Born Again Christians are the new Israel the new chosen people the Messianic Jews, not the majority of Jews living in Israel today.


#143    Bluefinger

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostJesus Loves Us, on 13 May 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

The Christian kingdom has been here the day Jesus appeared on the scene. What you didn't mention is that there are other kingdoms controlled by other sons of God.

John 12:30-32
Jesus said, "This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Who is the prince of this world? Lucifer or Satan, he has many abominable names. We are not in New Earth.

I would agree that we are not in new earth.  But even Revelation 20 shows that the Messianic Era comea before the new earth.

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#144    Truthseeker007

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 12:47 PM

Revelations is nothing but a book of symbols. Its not supposed to read litterally. It is more or less about the human body.

Spiral Symbolism:
Evolution and holistic growth:Letting go, surrender, release
Awareness of the one within the context of the whole
Connectivity and union with deific and cosmic energies

"Connectivity to the Divine" observation

#145    Truthseeker007

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

Chapter 4-11:  Christ Opens the Seals of the Book in Heaven
Literal:  John now appears at the throne of God and sees four beasts and twenty-four elders around it. On the throne sits God who has a book with seven seals. John weeps when he learns that no one can open the seals to the book. One of the elders tells John that Christ is able to open the seals. Christ then opens the seals, resulting in many Earth changes. The seventh seal unleashes seven angels who sound seven trumpets which are sounded one by one.

Interpretation:   John has a mental awakening when he attains the spiritual level of the superconscious mind, within the throne of his own body. The four beasts are his four lower spiritual center's animalistic desires and the twenty-four elders are the twenty-four nerves from his brain leading to his five senses. The superconscious mind, is now in full control of John's body. The body is symbolized as a book with seven seals which "no one has the ability to open on his own" (Revelation 5:3). Only through the development of the superconscious mind within a person, can these spiritual centers within the body be opened (i.e., spiritually activated).
As each spiritual center within the body is activated, different parts of the body are purified and upheavals of the body occur mentally, physically, and spiritually. The superconscious mind spiritually activates the seventh spiritual center (the Pituitary, the master gland of the body). As a result of this, it becomes "quiet in heaven for one half hour" (Revelation 8:1). This is symbolic of the perfect control of the mind for one half hour through meditation.

See more:  
http://www.near-deat...es/cayce10.html

Spiral Symbolism:
Evolution and holistic growth:Letting go, surrender, release
Awareness of the one within the context of the whole
Connectivity and union with deific and cosmic energies

"Connectivity to the Divine" observation

#146    Truthseeker007

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 12:54 PM

Chapter 12-14:  A Woman, a Dragon, Two Beasts, and a Lamb

Literal:  John sees a woman with twelve stars about to bear a child. Next to the woman is a dragon that is ready to devour the child she is giving birth to. After the child is born, the child is taken to the throne of God. Afterward, a war in heaven occurs and the devil and his angels are cast out of heaven to Earth. John also sees a beast rise out of the sea which the world worships. John then sees a lamb on the Earth and angels proclaiming the fall of Babylon.
Interpretation: John is shown a picture of the soul of humanity in its development since the days of eternity. The woman symbolizes the soul of humanity crowned with twelve stars, the twelve basic patterns of human personality as described in the zodiac. The child she bears is the conscious mind. As the conscious mind is born, a rival force of the self occurs, which brings about recurring periods of rebellion in humanity. Through divine intervention, the conscious mind is protected while the unconscious mind, from which it sprung, is withdrawn below the conscious level. This is the same story as symbolized as the fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Rebellion from the physical brings conflict into the soul but the soul can remain above it by remaining concealed from the forces of self will.
The "beast rising out of the sea" is the selfish animalistic desires that arise which are capable of ruling humanity. These desires spring from the self-will of the unspiritual intellect of humanity whom the world worships as a symbol of material success. The human intellect, lacking spiritual orientation, cuts itself off from all that is divine. The lamb that John sees are the forces of the superconscious mind in the world going into action. "Babylon," the human desire for earthly riches and success in the gratification of the flesh, begins to be destroyed as humans are shown the consequences of their prostitution of their higher faculties.
http://www.near-deat...es/cayce10.html

Spiral Symbolism:
Evolution and holistic growth:Letting go, surrender, release
Awareness of the one within the context of the whole
Connectivity and union with deific and cosmic energies

"Connectivity to the Divine" observation

#147    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:15 PM

I ran across something that the woman clothed in the sun is actually the constellation vergo during the beginning of the ancient Jewish year and the feast of trumpets. Vergo cannot be seen because the sun is out at that time.  it's related to celestial signs. So she is clothed in the sun. To make more things more spooky revelations describes the dragon with a tail that will come and bring down the stars in heaven. The comet ison if It survives it's trip around the sun which it just started may be the brightest comment with a tail that we have ever seen. Then we we may pass through its tail and get a meteor shower.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#148    Bluefinger

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:28 PM

The woman is Israel.  It comes from Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9-10.

The story shows Israel in exile (Micah 4:9-10) in Babylon and tells the story of Gentile persecution of God's people from then until the return of Christ.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#149    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:32 PM

View PostJesus Loves Us, on 22 July 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

It makes me wonder what this new temple is going to be. Born Again Christians are the new Israel the new chosen people the Messianic Jews, not the majority of Jews living in Israel today.

I do not agree, because at no point do we substitute the Jews in anything.... if anything we are adopted into their promises, they are never rejected.

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-C. S. Lewis


#150    Jor-el

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 22 July 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

I ran across something that the woman clothed in the sun is actually the constellation vergo during the beginning of the ancient Jewish year and the feast of trumpets. Vergo cannot be seen because the sun is out at that time.  it's related to celestial signs. So she is clothed in the sun. To make more things more spooky revelations describes the dragon with a tail that will come and bring down the stars in heaven. The comet ison if It survives it's trip around the sun which it just started may be the brightest comment with a tail that we have ever seen. Then we we may pass through its tail and get a meteor shower.

Yes it is true, that the text does have an astronomical connection, the woman is Virgo, the Virgin, but the constellation is also a reference to Israel and Israel personified by mary, the mother of Jesus, who brought the Child of promise to humanity.

In effect this astronomical conjunction, not only gives us the exact date of jesus birth, but also according to some the future date of the great tribulation.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis






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