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Iran, not Israel, faces an existential threat


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#1    GoSC

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:04 PM

Iran, not Israel, faces an existential threat, according to a top US analyst who is considered one of the world’s leading scholars on the Iranian nuclear issue.

In a research paper published last week, Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) said that, in preparation for a nuclear Iran, Israel has been working in recent years to extend the range of its missiles, and that it now poses a real threat to all of the Islamic Republic’s major population centers.

http://www.timesofis...tential-threat/

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#2    Ashotep

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:20 PM

I hope Israel has better since than to try.

I wish nuclear weapons the the technology to make them would disappear.


#3    GoSC

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostHilander, on 06 May 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

I hope Israel has better since than to try.

I wish nuclear weapons the the technology to make them would disappear.

I do too on both accounts. But Israel is notorious for provocations and no doubt this "rumour of Iranian aggression" is yet another such propagandist ploy.

Someday, Israel may poke the wrong caged tiger some day. And perhaps that caged tiger will be the US and its support.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#4    Dark_Grey

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:50 PM

Is it wrong that when I read the article all I saw was "blah, blah, blah, paid for with US tax dollars blah, blah, blah"?

We are sending them way too much cash...

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#5    GoSC

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 06 May 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Is it wrong that when I read the article all I saw was "blah, blah, blah, paid for with US tax dollars blah, blah, blah"?

We are sending them way too much cash...

They receive 3 billion a year from the United States, 8 million per a day.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#6    GoSC

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:18 PM

@ 3:40 of this video



"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#7    Dark_Grey

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 06 May 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

They receive 3 billion a year from the United States, 8 million per a day.

Middle of a horrible recession and 8 million dollars per day is going to support Israel's conquest. Just when I thought I'd seen it all, America...

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#8    Coffey

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:43 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 06 May 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

@ 3:40 of this video

I have to explain this to so many idiots. People never provide evidence of Iran ever saying that. Yet they say they did all the time. Really annoys me.

Edited by Coffey, 06 May 2013 - 03:43 PM.

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#9    Ashotep

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 06 May 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

They receive 3 billion a year from the United States, 8 million per a day.
That is a ridiculous amount considering our national debt.  Are we trying to buy their loyalty.

Edited by Hilander, 06 May 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#10    GoSC

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:07 PM

View PostCoffey, on 06 May 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

I have to explain this to so many idiots. People never provide evidence of Iran ever saying that. Yet they say they did all the time. Really annoys me.

What is even more annoying if for your efforts, you are accused of being a "anti-semite", a kneejerk blanket statement that media cornfed masses will resort to.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#11    DarkHunter

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:19 PM

3 billion dollars a year, or 8 million a day, or however else you want to put it is basically nothing in terms of government spending.  $802 billion spent in medicare and medicaid, $768 billion spent in social security, $670 billion spent in defense, $615 billion spent in discretionary spending, $461 billion spent in other mandatory spending, and $223 billion spent in net interest.  In terms of government spending $3 billion is nothing, if you want to cut government spending there are far easier and better things to cut first.  

To put this into a bit more perspective Afghanistan gets about $12.9 billion, Israel gets $3 billion, Iraq gets $2.1 billion, Pakistan gets $1.7 billion, Egypt gets about $1.5 billion, Haiti about $1.3 billion, Kenya about $1 billion, Jordan gets $0.85 billion, South Africa gets $0.76 billion Philippines get $0.61 billion and that is just the top 10 countries who get the most aid from the US.  Personally I would start cutting the funding to some of the countries that view America in a less favorable light long before cutting the funding to Israel or other friendlier countries if our debt situation is so bad that we can no longer give our current amount of foreign aid.


#12    Dark_Grey

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostDarkHunter, on 06 May 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

To put this into a bit more perspective Afghanistan gets about $12.9 billion, Israel gets $3 billion, Iraq gets $2.1 billion, Pakistan gets $1.7 billion, Egypt gets about $1.5 billion, Haiti about $1.3 billion, Kenya about $1 billion, Jordan gets $0.85 billion, South Africa gets $0.76 billion Philippines get $0.61 billion and that is just the top 10 countries who get the most aid from the US.  Personally I would start cutting the funding to some of the countries that view America in a less favorable light long before cutting the funding to Israel or other friendlier countries if our debt situation is so bad that we can no longer give our current amount of foreign aid.

Sources for that info?

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#13    Erikl

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:59 PM

What a laugh. Israel has about 8 million people residing in it, and the majority of them residing a 70km long coastline (roughly the Tel-Aviv and Haifa metropolitan areas). It's entire area, is 22,072 km2.

It would only take 1 nuclear bomb to critically wound it both economically and socially; it would take about 4 nukes to eradicate most of it's population.

Iran's leaders have made statements more than hinting that they acknowledge this fact.

Iran is about 80 million people, that's 10 times bigger, and 1,648,195 km2 in area. It's population density is 48/km, compare that to Israel's 359/km2. That's almost ten times less densely populated than Israel is.

It would take a huge amount of nuclear weapons to kill the majority of the population of Iran - at least several dozens. It would be virtually impossible to render most of Iran inhabitable unless hundreds of nukes would be fired on it.

Size matters. Considering it's size, in both population and area, Israel theoretically, if it had no meaningful military force, could be occupied within several hours be an invading army, maximum 24 hours. You wouldn't need a large army to accomplish that, also. Just several hundreds of tanks, several tens of airplanes, and perhaps 4-5 warships.

Iran is huge - any conventional assault will have to include thousands of tanks, hundreds of thousands of soldiers, hundreds of airplanes, tens of warships, long lines of supplies and an advanced network of communications. Considering modern Iran's size, it is comparable to historical ancient empires, which took years to occupy. It's as big as most of Western Europe, minus Spain. That took a modern military some two years to occupy (in WW2, occupation of Westeren Europe except the UK took the Germans almost two years).

So Iran is almost immune to conventional military assault, unless attacked by a superpower (US or Russia) and could even sustain a massive nuclear attack.
Israel is obviously not.

This entire thread contradicts basic logic.

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#14    Coffey

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 05:54 PM

View PostErikl, on 06 May 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

What a laugh. Israel has about 8 million people residing in it, and the majority of them residing a 70km long coastline (roughly the Tel-Aviv and Haifa metropolitan areas). It's entire area, is 22,072 km2.

It would only take 1 nuclear bomb to critically wound it both economically and socially; it would take about 4 nukes to eradicate most of it's population.

Iran's leaders have made statements more than hinting that they acknowledge this fact.

Iran is about 80 million people, that's 10 times bigger, and 1,648,195 km2 in area. It's population density is 48/km, compare that to Israel's 359/km2. That's almost ten times less densely populated than Israel is.

It would take a huge amount of nuclear weapons to kill the majority of the population of Iran - at least several dozens. It would be virtually impossible to render most of Iran inhabitable unless hundreds of nukes would be fired on it.

Size matters. Considering it's size, in both population and area, Israel theoretically, if it had no meaningful military force, could be occupied within several hours be an invading army, maximum 24 hours. You wouldn't need a large army to accomplish that, also. Just several hundreds of tanks, several tens of airplanes, and perhaps 4-5 warships.

Iran is huge - any conventional assault will have to include thousands of tanks, hundreds of thousands of soldiers, hundreds of airplanes, tens of warships, long lines of supplies and an advanced network of communications. Considering modern Iran's size, it is comparable to historical ancient empires, which took years to occupy. It's as big as most of Western Europe, minus Spain. That took a modern military some two years to occupy (in WW2, occupation of Westeren Europe except the UK took the Germans almost two years).

So Iran is almost immune to conventional military assault, unless attacked by a superpower (US or Russia) and could even sustain a massive nuclear attack.
Israel is obviously not.

This entire thread contradicts basic logic.



1 Nuke would easily wipe out Iran.... The Fallout would do the job. Do you not understand the power of a full scale nuclear strike?!

View PostB Jenkins, on 06 May 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

What is even more annoying if for your efforts, you are accused of being a "anti-semite", a kneejerk blanket statement that media cornfed masses will resort to.

Yeah that does my head in. The only religion to use such a pathetic tactic to shut people up when they criticize it.

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#15    Erikl

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:01 PM

Quote

1 Nuke would easily wipe out Iran.... The Fallout would do the job. Do you not understand the power of a full scale nuclear strike?!

Do you? One nuke of about 22 kiloton would hardly destroy more than 4-5 km2 . Considering fallout and such, perhaps as much as 20 km2 would be directly effected. Iran is more than 1 million km2 ! That would mean you'll need hundreds if not thousands of nukes to destroy most of it, unless ofcourse you use apocalyptic mega H-Bombs of about 10 megaton, which then the destruction radius increases to 25 km2 and taking into account fallouts, then perhaps as much as 100km2. However, I doubt Israel, if it has the nuclear arsenal talked about by all sorts of sources, have such bombs. I doubt anyone besides the US or Russia ever developed such massive bombs, and I doubt that if they did during the hey-days of the Cold War, that they still have them.

How many people would die from one nuke? let's say about half a million. Now, considering Iran has a population of about 80 million people, and Israel has 8 million, which country would be more crippled by just one nuke?

Edited by Erikl, 06 May 2013 - 07:13 PM.

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