The Great Sea Shepherd Debate

[village_idiot]

I'm just curious and am opening the gates to any skepticism, insults, gripes, complaints, comments or even questions some of you might have. I think it's pretty clear where I stand on the subject so I'll keep out of this as much as possible. But I do know of at least 2 fellow UM users who have made their opinions quite clear on Sea Shepherd, but I'm curious about the rest of you. So have at it...Post away...

[Mattshark]

They are criminals and pirates that make doing really scientific research much more difficult and galvanise Japanese attitudes to whaling and take credit for actions that they have not undertaken and is based purely on emotion not actual science and are despised amongst marine biologists (and with good cause).

Edited September 27, 2009 by Mattshark

[Jack_of_Blades]

They are criminals and pirates that make doing really scientific research much more difficult and galvanise Japanese attitudes to whaling and take credit for actions that they have not undertaken and is based purely on emotion not actual science and are despised amongst marine biologists (and with good cause).

^ My stance has always been what he just said. I didn't feel the need to

spend the time writing out the exact same thing

Emotion hath no place in science.

[stevewinn]

i don't approve of the sea shepherd, but sometimes their actions do prevent the whales from being killed but only for a day or two.

With the sea shepherd using more violent tactics it wont be long before one of the Japanese whalers is ordered to ram and sink the shepherd.

That fat fella with the white hair, he is a right knob.

Edited September 27, 2009 by stevewinn

[SCARLET1]

They are criminals and pirates that make doing really scientific research much more difficult and galvanise Japanese attitudes to whaling and take credit for actions that they have not undertaken and is based purely on emotion not actual science and are despised amongst marine biologists (and with good cause).

I agree with Mattshark. 'Nuff said.

[churchanddestroy]

I'm just curious and am opening the gates to any skepticism, insults, gripes, complaints, comments or even questions some of you might have. I think it's pretty clear where I stand on the subject so I'll keep out of this as much as possible. But I do know of at least 2 fellow UM users who have made their opinions quite clear on Sea Shepherd, but I'm curious about the rest of you. So have at it...Post away...

I have absolutely nothing positive to say about the Sea Shepherd, her captain, or her crew. They are pirates and criminals, and I relegate them to the same intellectual tier as members of PETA. No offense to any members of PETA on this board, but I believe the emotionally driven shenanigans of characters like the crew of the Sea Shepherd (particularly its Captain) and members of PETA around the world is an affront to logic, rationality, and good science. Is what the Japanese whaling ships are doing bad? Yes. Is the correct response piracy? No. The Japanese apparently found a loophole that they have exploited, and if its really that much of a problem, then you go back to the drawing board and start over.

I'm tired of the fact that when I tell lay people that I'm studying to be a biologist, many seem to connect my love of biology to the emotional and reactionary M.O. of a group of people that are basically environmentalist-terrorists. These people are not rational, and while I do have concerns for the environment, their methodology is more harmful than helpful. At the very least their actions only serve to promote a stereotype that people who have concerns about the environment are "green" nutjobs who would gladly burn down subdivisions, instigate acts of piracy against whaling ships, dump animal blood on people who choose to wear fur, etc. etc.

Its a shame that these people exist, let alone that they have a television show. There is no need for irrational, emotionally driven approaches to problems. Science solves problems by keeping a cool head and employing a rational, logically sound approach when solving problems. These people solve problems by creating bigger problems, and are morally, emotionally, and especially intellectually stunted. That is all they are.

[village_idiot]

I really appreciate everyone's input and hope to here more...Thanks everyone!

-The Village Idiot

[village_idiot]

Just to throw my two cents in, and be fair in the whole thing...

First off, and this may come as a shock to some of you, I do not condone at least a quarter of what Sea Shepherd, as a whole, has done. I find it immature and even childish that they have rammed vessels and scuttled more. And I agree, they may have even committed some crimes in their 'anti' tactics with some of their campaigns. However, in the same breath, I realize that all rammings, scuttlings and other tactics have resulted in zero casualties and next to no injuries on the opposing side. I also agree with the doctrine of Paul Watson in that protesting, sending letters to government officials, peaceful gatherings and demonstrations just aren't enough anymore. Does this give Sea Shepherd the right to just go and blow up a whaling or sealing vessel, killing persons aboard? Absolutely not. But, to their credit, on all campaigns, with the exception of the 1979 delibrate ramming of the whaler Sierra and a small handful of other cases, their tactics have only been reduced to filming said illegal activities, chasing around boats, demonstrations (that can get pretty graphic, I admit), the throwing of harmless 'bombs' (ie: butyric acid) and harreassing the crews of boats with harsh words and advancements.

In some of these cases, the opposing crews have done more damage than the Sea Shepherds had. For example, in February of 2005, a small band of Shepherd volunteers, from the Farley Mowat, were physically attacked by seal hunters after the volunteers had mearly approached, throwing nothing more than a handful of insults and words while filming the hunters activities inEastern Canada. Following the incident, 11 Sea Shepherd volunteers were imprisoned on the grounds of simply filming the activities of the hunters without government consent. Now, anti-Sea Shepherd or not, you have to agree that this is not acceptable.

Now, I don't mean to preach to anyone here. I have simply plead my case and don't mean to offend anyone. And I don't expect anyone to change their minds on their beliefs or evn be wavered. I simply jotted down how I felt aout the situation and want to hear more about what everyone else has to say. Like I said before, I do not condone 100% of the Sea Shepherds actions, but I will put my foot down and do my part to save the marine animals of the world who are slaughtered every day. And if that's a crime, then so be it.

-The Village Idiot

[Abramelin]

They are criminals and pirates that make doing really scientific research much more difficult and galvanise Japanese attitudes to whaling and take credit for actions that they have not undertaken and is based purely on emotion not actual science and are despised amongst marine biologists (and with good cause).

Maybe I misunderstand you Matt, but are you saying these Japanese whalers are doing scientific research??

And if it that's indeed what you mean, do you agree with the way they perform this scientific research?

[village_idiot]

Okay...is anyone here even aware of the fact that Sea Shepherd does more than whale campaigns? So far, all I've seen is gripes about their Antarctic anti-whaling campaigns...

[Jack_of_Blades]

Okay...is anyone here even aware of the fact that Sea Shepherd does more than whale campaigns?

Yes, fully aware and I find them no more fruitful than their supposed anti-whaling campaign. The seal campaigns are pointless, and their "anti-smuggling" opperation (if you can even call it that) is a farce.

Whales are brought up the most because:

#1: The Show.

#2: It's what they are doing the most damage to.

Unfortunatly Paul Watson lives in a fairytale land, which by itself isn't bad. However when

he starts dragging others into it; it becomes don't right dangerous.

I do not condone at least a quarter of what Sea Shepherd...

It's nice to meet someone who doesn't eat all of Watson's bulls**t

However I don't think there can be a middle ground here. Either your for the damage that Sea Shepherd is doing to real anti-whaling campaigns or you are against it.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Jack_of_Blades

[village_idiot]

However I don't think there can be a middle ground here. Either your for the damage that Sea Shepherd is doing to real anti-whaling campaigns or you are against it.

I disagree. And I do not consider what Sea Shepherd does to qualify as 'damage' and I happen to believe in their efforts in regards to their anti-whaling campaigns. But, that's just my and don't expect you to agree and in fact hope you don't. I don't expect people to be swayed from their beliefs, I was just curious.

[Jack_of_Blades]

I disagree. And I do not consider what Sea Shepherd does to qualify as 'damage' and I happen to believe in their efforts in regards to their anti-whaling campaigns. But, that's just my and don't expect you to agree and in fact hope you don't. I don't expect people to be swayed from their beliefs, I was just curious.

Great! As it should be. While I'll never agree with you on this subject, with a statement like that it's impossible not to respect you

As I too was only posting my beliefs. To each his own, mate!

[InHuman]

Both sides are in the wrong.

So long as Japan continues it's bull I'm willing to look the other way when P.E.T.A or Sea Sheppard nuts take it too far.

We can sentence them to jail or whatever once the whaling ends, thats just my opinion.

[Lt_Ripley]

Both sides are in the wrong.

So long as Japan continues it's bull I'm willing to look the other way when P.E.T.A or Sea Sheppard nuts take it too far.

We can sentence them to jail or whatever once the whaling ends, thats just my opinion.

agreed.

[Mattshark]

Maybe I misunderstand you Matt, but are you saying these Japanese whalers are doing scientific research??

And if it that's indeed what you mean, do you agree with the way they perform this scientific research?

No I'm not saying that mate, I'm talking about people who really scientific work and organisations like Sea Shepherd make that work harder because they promote unscientific ideals and present false images of dolphins and even on occasion attempt to prevent real science (Paul "I'm stuck up my own rectum" Watson for example believes in the idea of a cetacean nation, giving all cetaceans human rights and protection under human laws, which in reality means a lot of dolphin would be facing rape and murder charges).

[Mattshark]

Both sides are in the wrong.

So long as Japan continues it's bull I'm willing to look the other way when P.E.T.A or Sea Sheppard nuts take it too far.

We can sentence them to jail or whatever once the whaling ends, thats just my opinion.

Yes but Sea Shepherd's action simply make Japan less willing to negotiate.

[Abramelin]

No I'm not saying that mate, I'm talking about people who really scientific work and organisations like Sea Shepherd make that work harder because they promote unscientific ideals and present false images of dolphins and even on occasion attempt to prevent real science (Paul "I'm stuck up my own rectum" Watson for example believes in the idea of a cetacean nation, giving all cetaceans human rights and protection under human laws, which in reality means a lot of dolphin would be facing rape and murder charges).

Ah, ok, lol.

But he's not alone in believing these fairy tales about those cuddly dolphins, and I don't think he is making a big impression on how the general public thinks about cetaceans. Except that they need protection from the whaling industry.

[seashepherd_vixen]

I would just like to say that what is done to marine wildlife around the world is disgusting and it's a good ting groups like Sea Shepherd are doing somethingabout it. They may not do good things all the time, but at least they try.

[Queen in the North]

I would just like to say that what is done to marine wildlife around the world is disgusting and it's a good ting groups like Sea Shepherd are doing somethingabout it. They may not do good things all the time, but at least they try.

But in the long run, they aren't doing anything constructive about it.

[seashepherd_vixen]

But in the long run, they aren't doing anything constructive about it.

But that can be any bodies opinion. i say groups like greenpeace are not doing any better but that is just my opinion.

[Abramelin]

I would just like to say that what is done to marine wildlife around the world is disgusting and it's a good ting groups like Sea Shepherd are doing somethingabout it. They may not do good things all the time, but at least they try.

I'm with you, 'seashepherd_vixen'.

Maybe their methods are not ok, to say the least, but they make all of us think a second time.

And if scientist feel hindered in their work (MattSharks point of view), that is just a minor problem.

The Japanese whalers are using loopholes in the whaling law to slaughter these animals.

OK, so SeaShepherd is also using a loophole, or just not giving a damn about the law and actually DO something against them.

Maybe it's wrong what they do, maybe some scientists feel frustrated about what they do... but who else is actually doing something against whaling, eh?

No one.

.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Abramelin

[seax]

Mattshark said it...so no need in me saying it again. I agree.

seax

[Queen in the North]

I'm with you, 'seashepherd_vixen'.

Maybe their methods are not ok, to say the least, but they make all of us think a second time.

And if scientist feel hindered in their work (MattSharks point of view), that is just a minor problem.

The Japanese whalers are using loopholes in the whaling law to slaughter these animals.

OK, so SeaShepherd is also using a loophole, or just not giving a damn about the law and actually DO something against them.

Maybe it's wrong what they do, maybe some scientists feel frustrated about what they do... but who else is actually doing something against whaling, eh?

No one.

You got that right, their methods are not okay.

However, instead of what they're doing (and it's pretty apparent SS don't give a damn about anything, except the purty cute lil' sea creatures they wuv and adore) they need an organsied campaign to change the laws, and get the loopholes closed, rather than just plain piracy.

Sure, they might hold up a couple of whales being killed by sinking a whaling vessel, but that's short term, i.e. not conservation.

[Abramelin]

You got that right, their methods are not okay.

However, instead of what they're doing (and it's pretty apparent SS don't give a damn about anything, except the purty cute lil' sea creatures they wuv and adore) they need an organsied campaign to change the laws, and get the loopholes closed, rather than just plain piracy.

Sure, they might hold up a couple of whales being killed by sinking a whaling vessel, but that's short term, i.e. not conservation.

Just a couple of whales.... You count their succes in the numbers of whales they manage to save?

No one else is able to save ANY whale, they just talk and talk and hope to change the whaling laws before they die. But SeaShepherd does, even if it's just a small number they are able to save.

We are just sitting here on our asses discussing whether it is right or wrong what SS does, but we don''t do **** about it.