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Does the Devil/Satan exist as a real Being?


Alan McDougall

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Is there such an entity, being, prince of darkness, called by many names, Devil, Satan, Lucifer,etc?

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Lucifer in the bible was a reference to an earthly king, not a supernatural being. Satan was an angel strictly under the command of God. Satan did not 'stray' or 'lead a war against heaven', nor - despite popular modern Christian myth - was Satan the 'serpent in Eden', but was given the role of 'tempter/adversary' by God and carried out that role faithfully for God.

'The Devil' is pure invention, our modern perception of which is largely coloured by writers such as Goethe.

So, pick which one you want to debate as to being 'real', but of them all only Lucifer had an actual Earthly existence, albeit not by that name.

Edited by Leonardo
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Lucifer in the bible was a reference to an earthly king, not a supernatural being. Satan was an angel strictly under the command of God. Satan did not 'stray' or 'lead a war against heaven', nor - despite popular modern Christian myth - was Satan the 'serpent in Eden', but was given the role of 'tempter/adversary' by God and carried out that role faithfully for God.

'The Devil' is pure invention, our modern perception of which is largely coloured by writers such as Goethe.

So, pick which one you want to debate as to being 'real', but of them all only Lucifer had an actual Earthly existence, albeit not by that name.

So whos the guy in the goat head?

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So whos the guy in the goat head?

You mean "the Devil"?

As I said, pure invention coloured by much later writings such as Goethe's Faust. However, gods from other religions - mainly Dionysus from the ancient Greek beliefs - were used as a 'template' for the figure. The 'temple rites' of those cults, like those of the Dionysus cults, probably led to the perception of the behaviour of 'followers of the Devil', with orgiastic (and often fatal) rituals, etc.

Edited by Leonardo
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You mean "the Devil"?

As I said, pure invention coloured by much later writings such as Goethe's Faust. However, gods from other religions - mainly Dionysus from the ancient Greek beliefs - was used as a 'template' for the figure. The 'temple rites' of those cults, like those of the Dionysus cults, probably led to the perception of the behaviour of 'followers of the Devil', with orgiastic (and often fatal) rituals, etc.

This guy

220px-Baphomet.png

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that's Baphomet

That's the corruption of the name "Muhammad" by returning home Templars that thought Muslims were polytheists.Later occultists added more myth and imagery to it.

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Which religion?

In many religions, there's no such thing as a Head Evil Guy who opposes the Head Good Guy. There are harmful spirits (demons) and ambiguous spirits which can be dealt with and good spirits, but very few religions have "a Devil."

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Nope, no such thing. There have been excellent answers here already. Satan is a Christian misunderstanding of a very old Judaic concept of a celestial prosecuting figure, and Lucifer is an ever more egregious mistake: as it originally referred to a Babylonian king, not a supernatural entity.

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it exists in the same way zeus, thor and the easter bunny exist... in stories and minds.

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A Pagan died and found himself walking in the after life. He came to some white gates with an old man sitting on top. He said "Oh my, I wasn't expecting this." The old man look down and said, "You don't belong here. You belong down the road a bit."

So the Pagan started on down the road, a bit concerned. Then he came upon a meadow. People where dancing, feasting and having a good time. A man with horns and the legs of a goat come up to him, "Hello, I am the devil, but you know me as Pan. Welcome we have waiting for you. Eat, drink and enjoy yourself." So the Pagan got his mug and a plate. Then he noticed some people off in a corner of the meadow. Little demons where beating and whipping them while they screamed in pain. "Pan, what is up with those people over there?" "Those are the Catholics, they wouldn't have it any other way."

Edited by GreenmansGod
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Lucifer =/= Satan.

But yes, Satan does exist.. in the Bible.

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As I understand it, Satan entered Jewish thinking during the Persian exile under influence of Zoroastrianism, with its two immortal deities in eternal conflict -- one good and the other its opposite (I don't say "evil" because to it the good is evil).

They had already (maybe, depending on when the narrative surrounding the Job poetry was written -- if this was written during or after the exile then they didn't already have even this) had a figure appointed by God to make sycophants honest by pointing out problems with what they say. In other words he was an angel in good standing doing a job God assigned him.

The identification of the Zoroastrian deity with this Shatan or something was not hard, and it fit with the Jewish monotheist thinking (you can't have a co-eternal deity and be a monotheist even if you follow only one of them).

It was then much, much later that Christians identified Satan with the serpent in Genesis. As far as the Genesis account has it you only have a talking snake.

The horns and all that also came later, in identification with the Greek god Pan (as described above).

The thing to notice is in the OT you don't see evil acts or idolatry or anything like that blamed on anyone except the perpetrators, not on a devil and his existence to them is not mentioned (although God himself blames himself a couple times) .

What I really don't get is why doesn't Satan just give it up and beg for mercy? Would God deny it? Satan's pride is described in Milton's Paradise Lost, and I remember when I read that (way back) thinking, "This is not real, not believable."

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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. :yes:

Does all your material come from works of fiction?
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Does all your material come from works of fiction?

Does all your material come from a desire to ridicule and/or insult? Edited by Paranoid Android
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Does all your material come from a desire to ridicule and/or insult?

When responding to an insult..
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When responding to an insult..

That's not what I've observed.
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That's not what I've observed.

Claiming people are tricked because they don't accept superstitious beliefs is an insult to intelligence.
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Claiming people are tricked because they don't accept superstitious beliefs is an insult to intelligence.

Whether you agree or not, he has a right to his beliefs and this section of the board exists to stop comments exactly like this one you made. But really, my comments were broader than this single incident, more about your general way of responding to people.
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